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Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

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Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet was designed to be resilient in the face of nuclear war. If it can't handle governments that actually protect their citizens from predation by multinational corporations, then we should rethink some things about the direction that we've taken with it.

Sure, so, let's say that France decides that HN info is PII. So then Hacker News has to launch servers in France. And then French HN users are in an island, and only see other French HN users' posts and comments. And, to be clear, you think that's a good thing?

I don't think that's what's happening here. This is about a French company being disallowed by France from selling French citizens' data to a US Company.

Maybe this decision makes France toxic/favorable to certain kinds of business--much like how many privacy companies operate in Switzerland because the Swiss government is less likely to snoop than certain others, or how advertising companies operate in the US because they'll let you do whatever you want to their citizens. So yeah, fragments.

But you as a user are free to opt-into any fragment of the internet that will have you. If your government wants to stop you from doing so you should either take it up with your government or circumvent those limitations.

I don't particularly like the kind of fragment that France is creating here, the notion that data has a physical location in space strikes me as a rather shaky one, and I think policies following therefrom are likely to create convoluted architecture that exfiltrates the benefits of access without exfiltrating database instances (I've written enough code that tap-dances around the GPDR to know). Since I'm not trying to start an ad supported business in France, though, I'm happy to respect their right to come up with whatever weird policies they want.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, so, let's say that France decides that HN info is PII. So then Hacker News has to launch servers in France. And then French HN users are in an island, and only see other French HN users' posts and comments. And, to be clear, you think that's a good thing?

Do you think it would be difficult to allow the different HN servers to federate their content across regions?

Difficult? Not so much. Demanding a yet another great firewall on the other hand sounds absolutely atrocious to me.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#953

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we fragment and destroy the entire Internet I would call fragmenting these things rebuilding the internet. Not sure how consolidating everyone on a few Mailchimp type services is in anyone's interest.

Exactly. If this make European startups build their own ecosystem and provides me with an alternative for the services I use but don't track me, I'm going to switch - simple as. I see this as a win for the internet.

Sounds like protectionism when they can't compete. The EU isn't exactly a shining star for tech development, probably because the culture there kneecaps it every step of the way.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#954

Is anyone using an alternative that provides some basic analytics and isn't likely to get me in legal hot water in the future? I've already offloaded Google Fonts due to the German ruling. I'm happy to self-host piwik if needed, but could that fall foul of regulators?

Nobody is going to get in “legal hot water” on account of Google Fonts or Google Analytics unless they’re Google themselves or a top 10 ecommerce company some politician wants to make an example of. There’s millions of sites relying on those things. Is the EU going to drag them all into court? This is like saying you never jay walk because you want to avoid the legal hot water. The water isn’t even lukewarm!

You can sue, as said google fonts case awarded damages.

I'm now wondering if I can scale this for profit.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#955

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This court case makes it illegal since, while the user might consent to GA tracking, they legally can't consent to giving up their GDPR rights. Given that, the US law enforcement could still break GDPR by forcing the US corporation to hand over EU citizens' data.

Seems like a nice opportunity for a browser extension to automatically detect sites using GA, and also automatically report them to EU authorities. Zero clicks needed!

But that also remains true for the website themselves, since there is proof that the website illegally sends data of any EU citizen to the US. This really is pretty wild regulation.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#956
post #48

I don't like Google but seriously this whole GDPR thing is getting out of hand. Anyone who's concerned about their data being collected can just block Google-or-like-related domains. Rest is just making life of web developers/admins/tech company owners harder. Especially with these European intentions I frankly believe this is more of a political war against US and US-based companies. (No, I'm not from US as well)

> Rest is just making life of web developers/admins/tech company owners harder. Seriously? People spend tons money and time to track users. If you want to be GDPR-compliant, simply don't save unnecessary userdata and if you still feel the urge to do so, give users the option to control it. It's that easy. Any problems you get from it are of your own making. > Especially with these European intentions I frankly believ…

GDPR is not merely a list of bad things not to do. You aren’t compliant unless you follow slow, expensive processes to continually demonstrate compliance.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#957
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s okay. The EU can build it itself when the US player are not able to not send data to their US data centres.

Why would EU building it themselves going to happen? Either it could be profitable for company to operate in EU or it is not. Assuming current US companies are efficient enough and if they couldn't be profitable, why could be a same thing built by EU is profitable there. In fact it is opposite as they couldn't track as much as American companies even outside EU.

Because the US companies are bloat with their bureaucracy and structures. A Google is not able to pull a startup thing. See Stadia or the other short-lived projects, they all suffer from a lack of skin in the game - so to say.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#958
post #830
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but the solution is for there to be a treaty between the US and the EU that allows for this. Putting the burden on every foreign company to duplicate their infrastructure is stupid work to solve a human problem.

We already had two (I don't remember the order, but they were called Privacy Shield and Safe Harbour) and somehow US and US companies "forgot" to upheld their part in any meaningiful way, so there's some mistrust on the whole idea at the moment...

Both were illegal because they did not address the core issue. The EU commission (representing EU country governments) is more business driven and wants it to work, so they created Safe Harbour etc. They also drove the standard clauses which are illegal too (or better: If as an EU company you sign them, it's your responsibility to make sure the US three letter agencies do not access the data of your customers, good luck with that).

The EU parliament have the people in mind, so they don't think it works and drove the GDPR. The EU courts look at the law and see it's not possible to create contracts, so shot down Safe Harbour and Privacy Shields. The EU courts say standard clauses could work in principle, but see above.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#959
post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We kill people based on metadata." - Former NSA Head Michael Hayden.

Last I heard, the NSA was a governmental agency, not a corporation.

And governments now outsource some of their functions to bigger corporations as a loophole around human rights- mass spying and censorship, for example.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#960
post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But it’s also most often German courts that make headlines because a webmaster used a Google Font. I’d much rather have Google know my IP address than have some nutcase know where I live.

This is about a French court upholding a rulung under EU law. I'm not sure what Germany has to do with it.

Was referring to this (Munich court): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30135264
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