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How Basecamp Blew Up

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Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just to clear things up, do you agree or disagree with my previous statement that “ people are treated differently by society as a whole, based on their race”? Further that white people have historically been placed at the top of a hierarchy by society at large, above other groups? You are asking a question positioned using very low-fidelity and poorly scoped social justice dogma. With Nigerians topping educaction…

I took it as a given that we could agree that there was an explicit system of racial hierarchy in the United States. Call that social justice dogma if you want, but I’d consider it an objective fact. Edit: because it seems to be unclear. The word “was” was in reference to the past. It’s an objective fact that there _was_ an explicit system of racial hierarchy in the United States.

> I took it as a given that we could agree that there was an explicit system of racial hierarchy in the United States.

When you think it's explicit instead of implicit you are in a minority even amongst social justice adherents. Social justice started focusing on "implicit" bias and racism because the instances of explicit racism in the 2000s were not numerous enough to support its activist objective of tearing down the system and replacing it.

The whole concept of "systemic oppression" is based around this realization, where social justice argue that capitalism fool people into being happy and content so that they don't oppose an implicitly oppressive system that traps them in a false reality.

> Call that social justice dogma if you want, but I’d consider it an objective fact.

The examples in my previous message show that it's neither descriptive nor factual.

Social justice prescribe a totalizing worldview that use an every-increasing set of politically motivated identity groups to further an activist objective. The objective is to tear down the system and the promise is a utopia once everyone agrees with the utopic vision.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#952
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The argument is simply that the behavior everyone claims to decry (e.g. racial violence) starts somewhere, far below violence. "Funny names" turn into off-color jokes. Off-color jokes turn into jokes with a darker edge. Then it turns into "just asking questions", and before too long your organization is acting as much as a group radicalization effort as it is a business. Aren't you (or whoever makes these claims) p…

What does "people who talk" even mean here? I gather it's supposed to parallel "people who joke about the 'funny' names of people different from them", but how does the phrase end?

Sorry, not my mother language. I meant "people who meet and talk to each other"

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#953
post #948
post #940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe address the fair points raised rather than demonizing the other side?

He seems like a good kid, and very smart. Homeless as a teen, white mom kicked out as a teen due to dating a black man, clearly unstable upbringing which is brutal for any kid. Taught himself how to code at the library. He was a recipient of the Thiel Fellowship. You get $100,000 for 2 years of living expenses and you get to work on whatever. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to blog about that and instead focuses on the…

Insinuating that he's being racist for writing more about a negative experience is really grasping at straws.

Really, this whole write-up about him is a thinly veiled backhanded compliment. Extremely petty and childish.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#954
post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. The GP contained a provocation but the thing to do with those is ignore them, not single them out and then blow on them until they flare into war. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

In no way did I do what you're claiming. Please unflag my post.

I'm a bit flummoxed that you would say that, since your post is a textbook example of partisan flamewar. That leads to extremely low-quality discussion, inevitably evoking worse from others. Please don't.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#955
post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no way did I do what you're claiming. Please unflag my post.

I'm a bit flummoxed that you would say that, since your post is a textbook example of partisan flamewar. That leads to extremely low-quality discussion, inevitably evoking worse from others. Please don't.

My post rebutted a claim. It didn't inflame anything, nor did it escalate the conversation. Readjust your sensors. And unflag the post.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#956
post #948

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seems like a good kid, and very smart. Homeless as a teen, white mom kicked out as a teen due to dating a black man, clearly unstable upbringing which is brutal for any kid. Taught himself how to code at the library. He was a recipient of the Thiel Fellowship. You get $100,000 for 2 years of living expenses and you get to work on whatever. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to blog about that and instead focuses on the…

Insinuating that he's being racist for writing more about a negative experience is really grasping at straws. Really, this whole write-up about him is a thinly veiled backhanded compliment. Extremely petty and childish.

Just because you're passive aggressive doesn't mean I am. I meant what I said and there was no insinuation at all. I don't compliment people's software lightly. I would advise you to take your negative filter off.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See Daniel Shaver, who was recorded on camera being executed, unarmed in his underwear, begging for his life, by a psycho cop. Literally the only substantial voice that stood up and went to bat for Daniel Shaver was BLM. You're right, police violence is far from isolated to Black people. Most BLM activists would agree that stopping police violence has multi-racial benefits!

>Literally the only substantial voice that stood up and went to bat for Daniel Shaver was BLM. I don't believe this is true. Can you like anything on BlackLivesMatter.com that touches on Daniel Shaver's death?

https://www.nola.com/opinions/article_4f6138fe-ea8c-551b-9e6...

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/12/09/black-lives-mat...

https://www.facebook.com/JusticeForDaniel/photos/i-just-want...

| BlackLivesMatter.com

The movement is so much more than that website. There's also a big difference between black lives matter and Black Lives Matter.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#958
post #463

Bit of a fool’s errand to try and avoid politics at work — like a fish trying to avoid water in the ocean. The ways companies are built and maintained, the relationship between employers and employees, workplace requirements and benefits — all of these are shaped by and and built from political systems, to say nothing of how politics surrounding a person’s identity might affect their worldview. You’re never going to…

> You point out that this is part of a pattern of societal behavior you’ve known your whole life. Sure, as a poc I can empathize with this but to then escalate it beyond "hey this sucks, let's stop, let's be better humans" to godwinning it with real atrocities in the outside world is toxic to the workplace. I would not want to work at a place where a POC of my own color was constantly making everything out to be a ra…

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Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#959

This story is so strange. First of all, it has been considered unprofessional to talk about politics at work for as long as I can remember. It's odd how you would need a rule implemented about that. Is this just a generational thing? On the other hand, when did racial equality become an inherently political topic? Especially racial equality inside the workplace. This also doesn't mean that the Basecamp founders are r…

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Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#960
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laughing at names did not lead to genocide and no one implied that. What someone did was share why it was important to treat this seriously and not let it slide... lest the offending behaviors continue to escalate. An example was shared from social science on a pyramid of normalization where such behavior eventually gets normalized. Classic and indisputable example might be Germany in WW2. It wasn’t like citizens wok…

People did equate the names list to some mass shooting of Asians though. A name like, say, "Fuk Yo" is accidentally similar to the English "Fuck you". It's kinda funny in a childish way, but I don't think that making fun of it automatically implies that they think these people are of lesser value. i.e. I don't think it's automatically racism in the first place. It's inappropriate because making fun of your customers…

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