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Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

nytimes.com

951–960 of 1001 posts

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#951

From an engineering standpoint, this is definitely a cautionary tale about why you should be worried about vendor lock-in. If you don't own/maintain your entire deployment stack (right down to the bare-metal servers that your code is running on) you need to have some kind of plan for being able to migrate to a new vendor (whether because of a TOS violation or just the original vendor shuts down). I don't know the tec…

seems like they have been in talks for a little while at least, where they could've possible remediated the issues to buy some more time to avoid the TOS violation. curious to see if they had any effort to clean it up or immediately started working to migrate

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#952

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

> My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence or speech that discriminates against people for immutable characteristics of their person, both of which I know Parler harbors in abundance

Which Amazon, Facebook and Twitter also do "in abundance". I can give a list of links which show direct violations of their violence policy, discriminating religion, people et all and it has been happening for years and yet no action as been taken. But does it matter if I give you such a list? It doesn't matter. Why? Because it is taken for granted that all venomous stuff that you find online is coming from the Right Wing/Alt Right/Trumpists etc. There is nothing that Left can do wrong.

Since this is the notion that I find most left liberals employ there is no way to come to a common ground in such scenarios. Unless you are willing to accept that there is venom on the left wing too there is no way I will agree to your point. If you feel Parler harbors hate in abundance you will be shocked to see the kind of hate I have found on Amazon, Twitter and Facebook spewed by the left. If you want to address the issue you should take a holistic approach of condemning it in all platforms and not single out one platform. Only then I can take your argument seriously. But the question is: Can you do it?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#953
I don't much like the use of the term "de-platforming". It is too broad, and doesn't capture the nuances of this. The free internet is the only "platform" that you have any chance to control. It's not perfect, but it's the only one we have (there's also amateur radio). If you want a platform, get a co-located web server in a jurisdiction that won't unplug you due to your views.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#955
post #628

I'm having a real hard time understanding how all the comments in the thread are in favor of this. I mean, even if you disagree with the idea of Parler, how can one willingly support this kind of censorship? "First they came for the XYZ and I didn't care because I wasn't XYZ, then they came for the ..., and then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me"

“First they came for those that tried to lynch members of congress”.

Yeah, I’m fine with this. You aren’t?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#956
post #246

It was only two hours ago when I wrote: "I'm curious if this will also escalate to low-level platforms (will hosting companies, registrars, or even ISPs start taking similar actions on a regular basis?)" when Apple removed the app, following Google Play from yesterday. It would seem this cycle is certainly not done perpetuating itself as of yet. I think we are going to have some rough times ahead of us unfortunately.…

Wait for the major DNS servers to delist them too.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#959

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

Who gets to be the judge of speech liberties? Perhaps we need a bureau of the government to act in this manner, perhaps a ministry, who's mission is to determine whether words and opinions are true or not.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#960
The problem is that "free speech" is too often conflated with "being able to say whatever the hell I want, however horrific it is".

In my humble opinion, a democracy is one in which free speech is championed, but ultimately this freedom is trumped (genuinely no pun intended...) by the ability of the individual or group to actually rationally talk, accept difference and rationalise their point of view.

My liberty to say "the earth is flat" or "Covid19 doesn't exist" is not "free speech" but lunacy. I have zero rational evidence to support these positions, and I'd be unable in the face of serious scrutiny to even try to support these.

Science is a great example of a method which actually works. The whole, entire point of the scientific method is that it is based around being right until it is proved wrong. Every single serious academic ever knows this: they publish a paper with a theory, and they pretty much literally ask their community to shoot it down. Sometimes the theories remain for decades, sometimes they're found to be wrong immediately, and then a new paper and theory is published which sets out the latest position, there again until it is proved wrong.

The interesting thing in almost all the examples being pored over right now - Twitter and Trump, Parler, Voat - is that the individuals concerned are actually all involved in an echo chamber which self-supports. They are completely unable to rationalise, and if you ever tried jumping onto any of these streams or platforms and providing an alternative point of view then you'll see exactly what I mean by this - you're almost immediately flamed out of the room. The irony here - that these "free speech" platforms are the least able to support any kind of dissenting opinion - is intense.

Ultimately, the person claiming the primacy of "free speech" needs to accept that this freedom has a price: they need to be able to defend their position, and accept that others have alternative positions, and accept that even if their position is "true" now, it may not be "true" when further evidence emerges. This is rarely, I would suggest never, the case in the examples provided here.

In terms of this specific thread: I don't see Parler as a "platform of free speech". I see it as "a self-supporting echo chamber of individuals who are completely against free speech".

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