Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#951

Post by ergocoder » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 3:49 AM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #948

ergocoder wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it wouldn't fly well because FB shouldn't play a judge. I don't understand why we don't have a due process for stuff like this. Trump haters keep justifying that FB is private they can ban whoever they want. Then, when a theme park bans a gay couple, they are screaming violently. I understand how it would be hard for normal people to push something through legal routes. But even Warren doesn't want to use a leg…

> Trump haters keep justifying that FB is private they can ban whoever they want. Then, when a theme park bans a gay couple, they are screaming violently. 1. One of these things is not like the other. 2. “Screaming violently”?

Yeah, have you been on twitter? Not random Twitter accounts. These are FAANG employees.

They say Zuck and Dorsey support Nazis, white supremacists, and trump.

I worked at these companies, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

Just to be clear: I'm on the side of, if we are gonna ban someone, let's use a proper legal route to do it. But surprisingly nobody wants to go that route, huh?

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#952

Post by olivermarks » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:12 AM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #628

Dirlewanger wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt Taibbi talks about all this in his book Hate Inc. The 24/7 news networks needed new stuff to sell since the USSR was out. Turns out just general outrage at every little thing works good.

I rate everything Taibbi writes and says very highly, his substack is very of the moment, informed and perceptive. Regarding Facebook indefinitely suspending Trump, #bigTech can modulate exposure of politicians and aspects of their personalities and platform positions highly effectively - suppressing and amplifying for unknown 'fairness doctrines' of their own making. An example is Gabbard's response to Clinton on Tw…

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-trump-the-capitol-and-the-d...

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#953

Post by UnitingFolks » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

Though not from USA, I think people are preferring echo chambers because "reasonable disagreement" are labeled as extremism by the group. I will agree that follow the rule of the law and if "law" is not adequate change it. No need for violence. However if there is report of "some" discrepancy in voting. Now the discrepancy could be small enough to not change the result and most people will on the other side too will agree to it and not support the violence. However people who claim that "discrepancy" was wide enough to change result should be listened to with respect. There is no objective way to know how big the discrepancy was. Indeed people should listen to them and think of ways of reducing the discrepancy in future, while agreeing to disagree. Also agree that the degree of discrepancy is a subjective belief.

Instead people who feel that "discrepancy" was wide are being looked down upon and that does not give people space to talk to.

I am not aware of a good example but I am pretty sure there will be another example where the "others" are looked down upon with disdain. Such behaviour only creates more division and makes the echo chamber stronger.

You will find very smart people in each of these echo chambers so cannot say that these people cannot think properly.

Blaming social media for it is like print media was blamed when it first came out and opposed churches.

Edit: Changed the word biased to "cannot think properly" in the last but one sentence.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#954

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #898

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the other mass media outlets All? C'mon. You can make the argument that MSNBC is a mirror of Fox News in terms of coddling its viewers, but if you're calling NPR or the New York Times "fact-free," you're only betraying your own ignorance of journalism standards. Investigating facts and reporting them clearly is a solved problem. There are people who go to universities to study how to do this well, then go to wo…

Internal polls of NYT employees show less than 10% conservatives.

Given the recent anti-intellectualism and demonization of traditional media outlets by the American right, this shouldn't be a surprise.

I didn't claim NYT writers are unbiased, I said their reporting isn't "fact-free".

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#955

Post by awb » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #704

awb wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the election results became apparent cable outlets have begun cutting away from the President’s speeches and tech companies have begun censoring the President’s speech. Absolutely nothing has changed in the President’s speech or behavior since his 1st speech announcing his candidacy 5 years ago. We needed a John Hancock 5 years ago that was willing to draw a line on violent speech and disinformation regardless…

> We needed a John Hancock 5 years ago that was willing to draw a line on violent speech You mean like 'no justice no peace' or just speech that doesn't align with your political ideology? (To be clear, I'm all in favor of defunding police and the government at large)

Yes, any speech calling for violence is not helpful and I think worthy of discussion about the effects it has on our society.

Groups can practice boycotts, peaceful protests, civil disobedience, political activism, fundraising, etc. without resorting to violent speech.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#956

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:30 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #944

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the other mass media outlets All? C'mon. You can make the argument that MSNBC is a mirror of Fox News in terms of coddling its viewers, but if you're calling NPR or the New York Times "fact-free," you're only betraying your own ignorance of journalism standards. Investigating facts and reporting them clearly is a solved problem. There are people who go to universities to study how to do this well, then go to wo…

NYT and NPR are both extremely biased now. I say that as a 20 year long NPR listener. This is no secret, especially at NYT, where the newsroom is no longer firewalled from opinion. They chase even moderate left folks out for not being woke enough. The 1619 project fiasco, Bari Weiss, etc. They have fallen far since Trump got elected.

They're undoubtedly intersectional when it comes to social issues, but they're globalist on international affairs, and relatively centrist when it comes to the economy.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#957

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #891

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the other mass media outlets All? C'mon. You can make the argument that MSNBC is a mirror of Fox News in terms of coddling its viewers, but if you're calling NPR or the New York Times "fact-free," you're only betraying your own ignorance of journalism standards. Investigating facts and reporting them clearly is a solved problem. There are people who go to universities to study how to do this well, then go to wo…

> There are people who go to universities to study how to do this well, then go to work for institutions committed to doing this well. And a lot of these people have lost their minds. I’m trying to explain to my college educated friends right now why using “whiteness” as a pejorative is a bad thing. As an engineer I’ve always been skeptical of liberal arts education. But I didn’t think it would destroy America.

"Whiteness" kind of is a problematic term. Italians, Slavs, and Irish people don't actually share all that much culture, do they? The term really is mostly about solidarity against Black people (Black being in fact a real culture, one we managed to create by kidnapping people and stripping them of their original cultures). The meaning of the term has even fluctuated over time, as different European ethnic groups were admitted.

Maybe it's OK if that term gradually goes away?

There's a difference between acknowledging that the term "white" is bad, and suggesting that Poles need to apologize and live lives of penance for what English slaveholders did in the 1800s.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#958

Post by vel0city » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 5:19 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #435

vel0city wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate executives do not have a fiduciary due to maximize shareholder returns. If the shareholders and board of a public corporation want to quit making money and just throw massive parties all the time until the corporation runs out of money, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-co...

They don't have an absolute duty to maximize returns. But if they're taking deliberate and material actions that go against shareholder interests, they are required to publicly disclose that. For example there are non-profit corporations, and of course that's perfectly legal, but they're not allowed to masquerade as if they aren't. The key test for securities fraud is advance and public disclosure. It's funny you bri…

The Tyco executives were sued by the SEC because they didn't disclose the loans and acted in a way the shareholders didn't approve of in a massive way. Note I stated "If the shareholders and board..." in my comment, so that's totally a different scenario from the one I mentioned. In my example, everyone knows there's a party happening and the majority of shareholders agree with it. So long as everyone knows what's happening and the majority agrees with it, they don't have to bother trying to make a profit. They don't have to bother to make returns. If the shareholders decide buying Maseratis for everyone is what the company wants to do, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Corporations don't have to maximize shareholder value. Corporate actors need to be beholden to the interests of the shareholders, but that does not mean they need to bother to make a profit. Most publicly traded companies do focus on making a profit, and most people buy shares in companies with the expectation they generate returns. Nothing says this has to be the goal.

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#959

Post by r4ltman » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 5:49 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #757

lallysingh wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video is a terrible format for anything requiring the reflection and nuance of politics. People need to read at their own pace, stop and make their own judgements, and re-read parts to make it all make sense. Video is a firehose that keeps attention instead of letting you _think_. Leave it for entertainment and deep documentaries. If we had no more news channels and nightly programs, I think we'd both be happier and…

Straight up Marshall McLuhan, hot (immersive) & cool (passive) media.

Video https://youtu.be/a3IbIPQcmy8 Western Cynical: McLuhan Unclaimed (2018)

Re: Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump

#960

Post by petre » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:27 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #903

hi5eyes wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Twitter's audience is narrow: Most of the people I know (across countries, religions, genders, professions) do not have a Twitter account. most of the people in media are on twitter 247, talking heads take from twitter discourse and export that to other media

Twitter is really a broadcast medium, more geared towards posting in real time and reposting, and less towards a discussion. It also limits the size of a tweet, making them perfectly quotable, and discouraging nuance and detail, so a juicy bon mot is basically the only winning genre on Twitter. No wonder any public person, any politician, any celebrity may find out that Twitter is a must, if they want to keep and gro…

Twitter is the digital equivalent of gossip: truncated content that gets virally shared. Unlike gossip it's truncated from the onset, as opposed to at every reshare. Any kind of facts are then corrupted by comments.