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Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

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Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#951

Post by jasonvorhe »

lovecg wrote: post #124

Can we have a conversation about broader implications of the increasing power in the public discourse of Twitter et al.? I’m no Trump supporter but I do wonder if the tables were turned and Twitter e.g. turned Biden’s page into a wall of hidden tweets because of something it disagreed with (there are enough grievances with Big Tech from both sides). Do people think this is isolated (because Trump is, well, Trump) or…

The way you phrase it is as intellectually dishonest as it gets. Twitter didn't hide tweets they disagreed with, they hid tweets from a public official who cast doubt on the election process with no shred of evidence and acted in a responsible manner. With additional security on his account, there's are also additional responsibilities and since he didn't care, they had to interfere. They didn't delete anything, they didn't remove anything, they just made it perfectly clear that there's no proof to his allegations. That's responsible behavior and something that should have come way sooner.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#952

Post by thomastjeffery »

coffeemug wrote: post #921
ablekh wrote: post #659

OK, so the transition from Make America Great Again slogan to Make America Decent Again (and Better) reality is inevitable and welcome. It is easy to get overjoyed by results of the U.S. Presidential Election (and some celebration certainly is in order). Uniting the country is definitely a commendable goal, though it is easier said than done. The election results across all levels clearly illustrate just how divided…

I can get along with people from a different political camp, no problem. My gf is liberal, I'm conservative. We have lively debates about it, but we respect each other and never let politics get in the way of the relationship. It's as simple as that. But over the last few years friends called me a nazi and a racist, coworkers ostracized me for having unfashionable political views, many people cut contact entirely und…

> This is people denying your humanity on no grounds whatsoever, and when you point it out they say "well, minorities have always felt this way, so shut up and take it."

Here's where they are coming from: Donald Trump was denying people's humanity on the grounds that they came from south of the border. He was literally separating children from their parents to scare others away.

When I have explained that to Trump supporters, they immediately gaslight me; telling me it wasn't that bad, or Trump's fault.

> It's about Bill and John and Sally-- people who used to be friends and colleagues-- treating me like I'm a monster for no reason whatsoever other than a mass psychosis.

They don't mean to. Really, they don't. The trouble is, they just can't find a reason.

The only reason I can think of is that Trump supporters really don't know what's happening. That they don't believe it. It looks a lot like mass psychosis.

It looks even more like a cult. I would know: I grew up in one. If I can come back from that, you can come back from this. The first step is empathy.

Are you certain that you aren't in the "group of people oppressing other groups of people"?

I know it can be hard to confront that question. I did it about a year ago. When I did, I found out the answer was "no".

I dug a little deeper, and realized it wasn't a soft "no", either. I was an instrumental part of an institution that tears families apart and drives children to suicidal ideation. I always knew there were issues, but I had plenty of excuses for those issues and the institution's part in them.

If you really aren't a Nazi or a racist, then will you reconsider your support for the GOP? Bill, John, and Sally didn't just pull that out of their asses. What they said to you was disrespectful and dehumanizing, but it didn't come from nothing.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#953

Post by hackyhacky »

pqhwan wrote: post #844
dorkwood wrote: post #819

There's a famous optical illusion with a spinning silhouette of a dancer. When you look at it, you'll swear it's spinning in one direction -- say, counter-clockwise. In fact, you'll be so sure it's spinning counter-clockwise, that the idea it could be spinning in the opposite direction will seem impossible to you. But if you stare at it long enough, and intently enough, you can make it spin the other way. I've notice…

Growing up in a country where I was in the ethnic majority, I went through a period of right-wing political bent as a teenager. Then I came to the US, where I found myself in the minority and leaning left. So I feel that I have some personal insight into the mindset that pushes people right. But... maybe it’s that my past right-leaning self was a teenager with half-baked ideas about the world, when I reflect on what…

> maybe it’s that my past right-leaning self was a teenager with half-baked ideas about the world, when I reflect on what drove me that way, I cannot point to any coherent, constructive thought, mostly feelings of entitlement and an unwillingness to put myself in the other’s shoes.

Thank you for saying this. It's hard to admit an error.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#954

Post by thomastjeffery »

jariel wrote: post #730
ablekh wrote: post #659

OK, so the transition from Make America Great Again slogan to Make America Decent Again (and Better) reality is inevitable and welcome. It is easy to get overjoyed by results of the U.S. Presidential Election (and some celebration certainly is in order). Uniting the country is definitely a commendable goal, though it is easier said than done. The election results across all levels clearly illustrate just how divided…

Please don't assume that 'one side' has the unilateral moral authority to 'make things better and less divided'. This implication directly contradicts the part about 'unity'. 'One side' having the run of the system will absolutely lead to greater divisions. Trump is gone, I think most reasonable people will take solace in that. Now that he is gone, having regular checks and balances is a 'good thing'. Having the 'oth…

> there's plenty of room for a 'really good bit of legislation' to get through if the Dems want to push for it.

There's apparently plenty of room on Mitch McConnell's desk. There are already hundreds of bills that passed the House sitting there.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#955

Post by zalkota »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #892

Trump and the MAGA crowd are absolutely fine with things like separating kids from their parents, forced sterilization, intense racism, celebrating and stimulating police violence, attempting to steal elections, open corruption by a sitting president and much much more. And yet you go “gosh darn that foreign interference is causing leftist ideas”. Maybe you should take a series look at your media consumption because…

You’re part of the problem

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#957

Post by whytaka »

svara wrote: post #940

The sentiment of mutual understanding accross polticial lines expressed in many comments here is beautiful. However, let's not forget that on election night the current US president clearly proved his staunchest critics right. What might have happened if Fox News had adopted his "stolen election" narrative? This is, quite literally, how autocratic strongmen destroy their countries for personal gain. There's more than…

This is literally the biggest surprise for me this election. That Murdoch withheld the coup.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#958

Post by brandall10 »

svara wrote: post #940

The sentiment of mutual understanding accross polticial lines expressed in many comments here is beautiful. However, let's not forget that on election night the current US president clearly proved his staunchest critics right. What might have happened if Fox News had adopted his "stolen election" narrative? This is, quite literally, how autocratic strongmen destroy their countries for personal gain. There's more than…

I watched Fox News all morning yesterday. I couldn’t believe how much it resembled the other networks.

The GOP is also relatively mum. I’m thinking that I’m some sense, many of these folks are secretly hoping for the end of Trumpism, that a more normal GOP may return.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#959

Post by prossercj »

dorkwood wrote: post #819

There's a famous optical illusion with a spinning silhouette of a dancer. When you look at it, you'll swear it's spinning in one direction -- say, counter-clockwise. In fact, you'll be so sure it's spinning counter-clockwise, that the idea it could be spinning in the opposite direction will seem impossible to you. But if you stare at it long enough, and intently enough, you can make it spin the other way. I've notice…

Is this not a function of how rationality actually works? We all begin with premises which are fundamentally unproven and unprovable. Our conclusions follow from those premises. Change the premises and the result changes, though both sets of deductions may be perfectly rational. In other words, rationality is a process, not a set of conclusions.

One word for this is "tradition". If I've piqued your interest, please read Alasdair MacIntyre's book "After Virtue," and also it's sequel with a more provocative title, "Whose Justice? Which Rationality?"

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