Kickstarter employees vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#951

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:35 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #804

dangus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at their employee reviews. The management there seems toxic. I implore you to also think twice about the way in which you are demonizing unions. Sure, some unions aren’t the best, but what you’re saying is 100% discounting the benefits that a union can bring to employees. Union dues can more than pay for themselves in wage negotiation. They can restrict overwork, unpaid overtime (see the special salaried ov…

> Sure, unions have bureaucracy, but they have bureaucracy that is incentivized to increase outcomes for the employee and not the employer. You are directly paying the union to represent and fight for you. No, they have bureaucracy that is incentivized to increase the influence and power of the union leadership. You are directly paying the union to represent the union's interest, which may or may not align with your…

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#952

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #423

dangus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at their employee reviews. The management there seems toxic. I implore you to also think twice about the way in which you are demonizing unions. Sure, some unions aren’t the best, but what you’re saying is 100% discounting the benefits that a union can bring to employees. Union dues can more than pay for themselves in wage negotiation. They can restrict overwork, unpaid overtime (see the special salaried ov…

> Union dues can more than pay for themselves in wage negotiation. Those negotiations can also drag down your salary potential as well. You get paid what everyone else gets paid. If you warm the chair longer, you get paid more, regardless of any innovation or extra value you bring to the business. You have incentivized mediocrity because what’s the point of doing anything beyond the minimum requirements? It isn’t lik…

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#953

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

celdon25 wrote: post #274

dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

> Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor Glassdoor's ratings are not terribly reliable. Here's something I wrote previously about my own experience with using it: ----- I left a poor review for an employer only one time in the 10 years or so I've been on Glassdoor (there were only a couple other reviews). And almost immediately after, there were about 20 or 30 5 star reviews posted in a short amount of time. The co…

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#954

Post by ryanmercer » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

>I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from joining a union.

I think athletes are more in unions because when the NFLPA was formed most of them had to go get real jobs to support themselves combined with the fact that sports like American Football have a history of causing life-changing injuries including pretty severe TBIs.

The wiki entry for the NFLPA even points this out

>The new association's initial agenda also included a league-wide minimum salary, plus a per diem when teams were on the road, a requirement that uniforms and equipment be paid for and maintained at the clubs' expense, and continued payment of salaries when players were injured

Even then they didn't get that great of a deal

>Rather than face another lawsuit, the owners agreed to a league minimum salary of $5,000, $50 for each exhibition game played, and medical and hospital coverage

Inflation adjusted from 1956 that's a minimum salary of $47,421.14.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Pl ayers_Association

So there was a very real reason for that specific union to form and once a union forms, it's pretty unlikely to go away.

Trying to compare that to office workers needing a union doesn't really translate.

I'm not saying office workers need, or don't need, a union. I'm simply saying I don't think this is a fair comparison. I've never been part of a union and can't really speak to the benefits and downsides of them.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#955

Post by blahbhthrow3748 » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #912

Negitivefrags wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like there is some shadowy cabal running cost benefit analysis of every decision for some evil purpose. Maybe the free snacks are there because it’s nice to have free snacks and the boss enjoys them? Does there really need to be a more sinister reason? I mean, I know at our company that I wanted to have drink fridges with a huge amount of interesting beverages because I enjoy drinking a different drink every…

There is at least a little bit of a dark side to seemingly frivolous perks like snacks, foosball tables, and beer on tap- by spending relative pennies for "luxuries", management is able to paper over diminished investment elsewhere, that employees could otherwise benefit from. Or to hide work cultures that aren't as great as they look upon their first visit. Shiny distractions.

This. I work at a place that had no retirement plan, subpar health insurance, generally clueless HR and no support for career development besides "fake it til you make it".

Of course they have ping pong tables and video games and free snacks and drink fridges. The cost and logistics of putting in a couple ping-pong tables is way cheaper than giving everyone vision coverage, or matching retirement contributions.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#956

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #761

HarryHirsch wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a union or a cooperative, the members actually have an opportunity to decide who gets to be at the top.

Ultimately, company culture is a product of what the owners and their appointees allow and incentivize. In Uber's case, its culture is directly tied to Kalanick's management. I agree in that unions give employees leverage in management and decision making, and that a union might have provided incentives for Uber to behave differently towards its employees. But a union isn't going to change who owns the company, unles…

I don't think management has the ability to shape culture to that degree. Maybe it is different in the US, but I doubt this to be generally true.

Unions are indeed in danger of creating their own ambitions, especially without input from workers.

That said, I think the US could really use some form of employee interest group. Because the business orientation has reached perverse levels.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#957

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:50 PM UTC

ken wrote: post #595

whatshisface wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uber's male chauvinistic culture and the problems associated with that can be a typical examples of "why tech needs to unionize" Why wouldn't the same employees that are setting Uber's culture set the union culture? The union is a collective bargaining unit that acts on behalf of the workers, not the most moral and upstanding workers, or the most progressive workers, or the workers that represent you personally.

Sexist/racist people don’t show up to union meetings and volunteer for union committees to push sexist/racist policies. It’s not like national politics where it’s a prestigious and high paying job, and corporations are throwing a ton of money behind candidates. Also, unions are usually not employer-specific. No matter how many jerks you have at one company, they can’t overpower all the voting members at all the other…

If you make sexism/racism the focus of your union, it will be very short lived.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#958

Post by ryanmercer » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #646

ChuckMcM wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers could have effectively used the leverage associated with unionization since at least 1984 during the semiconductor recession. Considering that the revenue per employee number is at an all time high, and the amount of money the company spends on the employee's working environment[1] is at record lows pretty much explains why this is going to be effective now when it wasn't before. There is also the issue…

Also, frankly, fsk free snacks. Pay me the money you were going to spend on snacks, and I'll choose whether to spend it on snacks or not. And since the money spent on free snacks was probably about $20/week, it won't be a significant consideration in any of my decisions. Bus service might be more significant in some places, but every place I've ever lived had that subsidized by the government, and long commutes are a…

I'd welcome free snacks. I work on IND airport property, we have 30 minute lunches, the 2 refrigerators will store maybe food for 20 people yet we have 100ish on day shift, McDonald's is the closest anything and in traffic during a typical lunch period will take you 20-25 minutes on a good day to get to and get back and we can NOT eat at our desks (that we share with another shift). Then of course there are 3 microwaves to reheat your food, for 100ish people.

Some free fruit or something would be awesome for when you're not feeling what you brought or need something in addition other than bloomed chocolate and stale chips from a vending machine that the vendor refills once every 1 week to 6 weeks with no rhyme or reason. The soda machine sells out in 3-4 days and the vendor comes once every 2 weeks if we're lucky. The tap water comes out milky white at first and even if you let it run if you fill a mug and let it sit for a half hour, dump it out, the next day there will be white build up. Do that for a week and then heat the mug and it'll flake off printer paper thick pieces.

I'd totally take free snacks, but yeah I'd be happier with more money.

When I was at OpenAI for a meeting a couple of June's ago I was absolutely floored when they were like "we cater 2 meals a day, you're welcome to stay for lunch" and the guard/receptionist immediately offered me a chilled drink as I was checking in. I was like "wait, did I die and go to heaven?!"

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#959

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #63

dangus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at their employee reviews. The management there seems toxic. I implore you to also think twice about the way in which you are demonizing unions. Sure, some unions aren’t the best, but what you’re saying is 100% discounting the benefits that a union can bring to employees. Union dues can more than pay for themselves in wage negotiation. They can restrict overwork, unpaid overtime (see the special salaried ov…

>junior graphic designer I don't think anyone says tech employee and is referring to graphic designers/anyone in that area. 99% sure anyone who hears tech employee is thinking software development. EDIT: How on Earth can anyone downvote this statement? If you ask 10 people to name 10 tech companies, not one of them is going to pick a game studio.

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#960

Post by baggachipz » Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

Negitivefrags wrote: post #911

gpm wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free snacks has to be one of tech companies most profitable endeavors. They've got a bunch of workers who cost them on the order of 1 to 4 dollars per minute. If they can spend a dollar on a snack to get 2 minutes more work out of them, they are making a killing. Snacks aren't part of your salary for being an employee of your company, they're your company trying to make as efficient use of your work time as possible.…

You act like there is some shadowy cabal running cost benefit analysis of every decision for some evil purpose. Maybe the free snacks are there because it’s nice to have free snacks and the boss enjoys them? Does there really need to be a more sinister reason? I mean, I know at our company that I wanted to have drink fridges with a huge amount of interesting beverages because I enjoy drinking a different drink every…

There is a secret cabal running cost-benefit analyses of every decision for some evil purpose: They're called MBA's and they're everywhere. Especially in larger companies.