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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#951

Post by enriquto »

jordigh wrote: post #172
typon wrote: post #126

This is actually the best outcome for the FSF. Unwittingly, the FSF might now need to find a leader who isn't a known weirdo/creep who's "genius" people merely tolerate. This might be the best news for FSF fans like me.

I kind of agree. As another free software fan, I've been uncomfortable with a number of things that RMS has been doing. Free software is good, no compromise/no surrender is good, and fighting against proprietary software is good. Doing it the ways RMS has been doing it is often not good.

I do not feel at all identified with that view.

Mine is just a particular case, but as a mathematician I was attracted to computer science (as a legitimate field with important real-world effects) thanks to a talk that RMS gave in my university. First I liked his personality and sincerity in the way he explained the printer driver story; then I listened and read everything else he said (especially "the right to read") and it ressonated with my thoughts very powerfully. I guees the same thing happens to many people.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#952

Post by bandrami »

dangxiaopin wrote: post #820
eloff wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. The consequences here are out of line. You can be reprimanded to take your discussions to a non company venue, i…

It's not a company. It's a university, for God sake. If no free speech there anymore, then where? In the kitchen, like in the USSR? Now if he was a pedophile, he should be in jail. But he is not, he is exersizing free speech, no matter how disgusting it is, he is entitled to it. Should Nabokov have been made unemployable too for writing Lolita?

People keep saying he was "fired", but my understanding was he wasn't actually being "paid" to begin with. (Is that correct?)

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#953

Post by kccqzy »

eloff wrote: post #736
colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career. The consequences here are out of line. You can be reprimanded to take your discussions to a non company venue, i…

> How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career.

Just ask James Damore and his memo on a certain ideological echo chamber. I read his document, and found his view point to be sadly misinformed; yet his right to speech wasn't protected. He was fired.

That was the moment I realized free speech isn't really a thing any more if it touched certain topics. Yes constitutionally we still do, but we can easily lose everything that matters to us even if we win the court battle.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#954

Post by collyw »

colechristensen wrote: post #773
cf141q5325 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. Which until a few years ago was completely legal in for example Switzerland. As long of course as no one is coerced into anything. Playing the Advocatus Diaboli, why should i view this outcry as anything different then the Saudis stance on sex before marriage? Fundamentalist puritan…

There isn't a situation where a 74 year old has sexual contact with a 17 year old on a billionaire's private island in which everyone is willing and happy with what is happening. It is extremely doubtful that a young woman would find herself in that situation in any other way than a long path of abuse and desperation. Taking advantage of that young woman is immoral. That isn't some puritanical, anti-sex philosophy th…

If you offered enough money I am sure a fair number of 17 year old would be happy to accept. I have seen girls auctioning off their virginity after all.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#956

Post by reuven »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #930
reuven wrote: post #665

People seem to be saying a variety of things about RMS: He's a genius, so let him be. He doesn't understand interpersonal communication. He didn't say the things people thought he said. People are too quick to judge. And so forth. I was there, about 20 years ago, when he sent e-mail urging all free-software advocates to protest a bill under consideration in the US Congress. I asked him if he had read the bill. "No,"…

>how could someone claim any moral or leadership authority when he called for protests and a letter-writing campaign on a subject he didn't know about first hand? ... >You want to defend Epstein in your own personal life? Go for it; you won't have many friends or colleagues afterwards, but that's up to you. But if you do it as the public face of a well-known activist organization? You can't possibly stick around ther…

I did write:

> To defend Epstein, or the people who were associated with him, is unacceptable.

Sorry, but Epstein's crimes, and the horrible things he did to a lot of people, and the growing web of powerful people involved with these crimes, are not something to have trivial fights over.

Maybe RMS was just defending Minsky's participation in Epstein's sex trafficking scheme. That's bad enough to me.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#957

Post by GoblinSlayer »

nabla9 wrote: post #431
bubblethink wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But RMS is de facto leader and public figure in movement that is also political What does this mean ? He is a leader of an organisation related to software freedom (or more pedantically, the choice of licences used for software). How is it relevant ? All you are saying is, "Famous people can't talk like that".

There are multiple issues here: * General principle that people in influential positions have less protections and should have more scrutiny than average John Doe. Celebrities and influential people have less legal privacy protections. * People are free to speak as individuals, but they may not be free to speak while they have public position in the organization. Elected members of the organization like FSF don't hav…

Celebrities do have protection from any injustice, and mob rule is unjust. They can't demand punishment for other people for mild disturbance, but that's all, they have all other rights and protections.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#959

Post by mlindner »

mikeash wrote: post #85
mlindner wrote: post #58

Unfortunate witch hunt against an innocent, if strange, man. I could go on but people don't want to hear anything other than the hateful things that they believe.

Nobody’s burning him at the stake or putting him in jail. He can go on living a perfectly good life. What he can no longer do is act in a leadership role in the community and corrupt that community with his crap.

He's not corrupting anything.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#960

Post by concordDance »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

> We don't have to tolerate people who make women feel unsafe and unwelcome in our (or any) industry.

A lot of people (mostly men) hugely overestimate just how fragile and vulnerable women are.

The semi-autistic are a lot more likely to be made unwelcome than women.

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