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Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

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Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#951

Post by noelsusman »

coffeemug wrote: post #450
grzm wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”I'll take an asshole over a pushover any day“ This is a false dichotomy. There’s no need to be an asshole to not be a pushover.

Actually, it isn't. For example in today's environment when someone suggests something stupid, it is no longer acceptable to say "this seems stupid to me" because it might hurt someone's feelings. So instead you walk it back and say things diplomatically (which is a tiny form of a white lie). Then people reply to your diplomatic statement with another diplomatic statement, and pretty soon nobody is saying the thing t…

I say exactly what I think all the time and have never had a problem with it. If "I think this is stupid" is all you can come up with, then the problem is with you. You can simply say "I think we should do X instead because of Y and Z" and get the same exact point across. You're still being direct and not skirting around the issue at all.

It's not even about caring about other people's feelings because it's the right thing to do or whatever. It's just a more productive work environment. Attacking people personally triggers defense mechanisms in their brain that almost always lead to bad outcomes. The overwhelming majority of people have brains that work like this, and denying that reality is not going to lead to anything good.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#953

Post by sctb »

undefined_user4 wrote: post #801

Seems to me like he's been brainwashed by a bunch of emotional SJWs. I'll certainly miss the old Linus.

I can believe that it does seem like that to you, but if you're going to post on Hacker News please say something substantive and please avoid pure inflammation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#955

Post by ece »

microcolonel wrote: post #325
JoshTriplett wrote: post #276

Take a look at the chart in https://twitter.com/ErynnBrook/status/1038893975279550465 Many people are so afraid of ending up in the bottom right (just giving in) that they head for the top left (zero-sum competition). This underlies some of the things people fear about codes of conduct; they're afraid that they're being pushed into that bottom right corner, rather than striving for better collaboration. Be direct. Be…

The problem here is that the "Collaborating" sector is the wrong goal for the Linux kernel. Linus Torvalds is uniquely qualified to be concerned about matters concerning the kernel; if his interlocutors "win" too much on their side of the "win/win", every user loses. The public embarrassment of lazy and dishonest actors, especially those who are paid to collaborate, is an effective tool for maintaining order and stan…

You're an idiot if you think insulting someone is effective shaming or the only way to do so. As the CoC points out, you can reprimand a community member in any number of ways and keep track of it.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#956

Post by msbarnett »

philwelch wrote: post #273
msbarnett wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s all kinds of problems with your perspective, most notably that it presumes the existence of an objective arbiter of “competence”. In reality, in the past Linus has lambasted people for patches that Linus misunderstood, which had no beneficial impact whatsoever and instead led to a least one case in which a highly competent contributor vocally said he was walking away from kernel development over Linus’ immatu…

> It’s also important to recognize that essentially nobody chooses to be incompetent Nonsense! Sometimes people decide to do just enough to get by in life and otherwise completely check out. Other times, people decide to care about their work. Sometimes, they care so much that they get deeply emotionally invested in it. What people do and do not care about is based on their values, and values are instilled by the cul…

Suffice to say, I think this nonsense. The idea that Linus was ever screaming at some engineer from IBM or Intel because they were “trying to do the bare minimum in life” by trying to contribute to the Linux kernel both fails the Principle of Charity in viewing interpersonal relationships and is just utterly pants-on-head idiotic and a general indictment of your intelligence, upbringing, and education. You must be a complete and utter moron to have thought posting this idiotic drivel in public was a good idea.

Now, did the second half of my paragraph above in any way help my point? Are you feeling any more inclined to consider my point of view? Would you enjoy being spoken to that way in your job? Is this exchange of ideas in any way improved by my assuming you’re a fool?

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#957

Post by godgod »

jakeinspace wrote: post #257

Linus is stubborn, persistent, and unyielding to what he sees as bullshit. These I believe are all very valuable qualities for the head of a massive software project, and may be part of the reason as to why Linux is where it is today. However, Linus is also a bit of an asshole, turning technical criticism into personal seemingly personal attacks. I believe those 2 sets of qualities are separable, but I would guess it…

I don't care how smart he is or the fact that he created the Linux kernel...there is NO excuse for being unprofessional and a dick.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#959

Post by Aweorih »

kupiakos wrote: post #910
dx87 wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, he seemed to only get personal when he knew the developer, and it seemed like it was mainly because he knew that they knew better, but were still submitting bad patches anyway. I still remember seeing an email response to someone who was just starting college and was telling Linus that he thought the way they were using spinlocks in the kernel was wrong. Linus knew they didn't know any better, so he didn't i…

That sounds like an interesting email. Would you be willing to link to it?

Maybe this one: https://yarchive.net/comp/linux/semaphores.html

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#960

Post by tomlu »

osrec wrote: post #53

I remember criticizing Linus' sarcastic comments on here some time ago. I was surprised by the number of people that defended him saying stuff like "Linus is just Linus" or "he needs to be like that to keep Linux moving forward". I personally think his brilliance would be even more appreciated if he were a bit less sarcastic.

I feel people confuse being blunt with being rude.

"This patch is crap. Stupid this silly that, and how many times have I said you can't break userland."

vs.

"I won't accept this patch as-is, or possibly at all. It has the following problems [...] and I don't feel you respect userland stability enough."

I really don't see how the second version compromises on the clarity or kernel quality.

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