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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#951

Post by Latty »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #443
Latty wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue you are ignoring is that only one person needs to "save and distribute" it, then the pirated version becomes easier to view than the DRMed version. The proof in the pudding is that every TV show and film is instantly available online to anyone who can work a BitTorrent client.

No, I'm not ignoring those. See my prior comments: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15279688 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15279855

Your first link, there is truth to it, the most obscure and small stuff won't be pirated. Does that matter? I don't think anyone is only looking to defend things that are that obscure. Anything with even a middling number of people interested has it's DRM blasted through very quickly as far as I see.

Your second point, Denouvo is for video games and is a very different ballpark - it turns out storing code to lock things down is a lot easier in an executable vs in a video. DRM is certainly more effective in games (although the evidence is it causes way more problems for legitimate users, and Humble Bundle et al have proven that users prefer legitimate options when they are easy and affordable).

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#952

Post by mirimir »

athenot wrote: post #868
mirimir wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any way to win that war. The IP oligarchs have won it. They own the W3C now. But there is clearly a demand for DRM-free browsers. And if the worst fears are realized, and mainstream browsers won't display media without DRM, or become snooping devices for IP oligarchs, that demand will increase. Sure, it'll never be more than a niche, but DRM-free browsers will be there for those who want them.

There's an easy way to win that war: diversify the content you consume. If you're willing to step outside of the immensely popular, there are great treasures to be found. IP owners are protecting their assets which are worth a lot. The irony is that the value of those assets come from us content consumers. And I'll be the first to admit that I'm a lot less interested in the local amateur hockey team than the national…

For individuals, sure. But the war was about norms for the Web. And that's lost. Again, by the way. The first time, as I recall, being in ~1995, when the commercial takeover really got started. So it goes.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#953

Post by snakeanus »

cjsuk wrote: post #940
snakeanus wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And not postscript. Something you can author by hand. How about TeX? Many sites already use js libraries that integrate latex.

Not the worst idea. However not the best. Something between that and markdown.

Markdown is a bad joke.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#954

Post by snakeanus »

Tharkun wrote: post #926
snakeanus wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And not postscript. Something you can author by hand. How about TeX? Many sites already use js libraries that integrate latex.

I hope this was intended as a joke? Most users struggle with simple typesetting conventions like underscore/asterisk. HTML tags (or CSS) are out of reach for the vast majority. TeX isn't even part of the known universe for users!

> HTML tags (or CSS) are out of reach for the vast majority

CSS sure, but most people can learn the basic html tags in a minute. Same for the basic latex conventions.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#955

Post by flukus »

snakeanus wrote: post #954
Tharkun wrote: post #926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this was intended as a joke? Most users struggle with simple typesetting conventions like underscore/asterisk. HTML tags (or CSS) are out of reach for the vast majority. TeX isn't even part of the known universe for users!

> HTML tags (or CSS) are out of reach for the vast majority CSS sure, but most people can learn the basic html tags in a minute. Same for the basic latex conventions.

I think this is a case where struggling == "doesn't want to learn". It's important to distinguish so you don't waste time trying to help the latter.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#956

Post by gsnedders »

masswerk wrote: post #937
holmb wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is scary indeed. Was he convicted? Police do make mistakes and one can only hope that they are corrected.

I faintly recall reading (to my utter astonishment) that he was at least not freed from the accusation as you would have expected. I tried a search for any follow-ups, but to no avail. Maybe due to the "right to forget." (Information conveyed without warranty, liability or claim of correctness. It has been 12 years since, I may be in error.)

He might have never been charged, and being released without charge is rarely reported.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#957

Post by gsnedders »

nradov wrote: post #893
swiley wrote: post #880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ehhh HTML parsers/DOMs are trivially easy to write. after that you need to go get a JS lib (like ducktape) and write a css and json parser. After that all you need is a layout engine, which GUI tookits like tk and gtk+ already have for text editing.

Parsers for valid HTML are trivially easy to write. The hard part is dealing with garbage HTML tag soup and still rendering something that looks good. Browsers have to figure out what the page author intended and work around all the content defects.

Parsers for invalid HTML are trivially easy to write: you literally just implement the spec, and that's not hard, and then you implement every major browser.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#958

Post by nradov »

gsnedders wrote: post #957
nradov wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parsers for valid HTML are trivially easy to write. The hard part is dealing with garbage HTML tag soup and still rendering something that looks good. Browsers have to figure out what the page author intended and work around all the content defects.

Parsers for invalid HTML are trivially easy to write: you literally just implement the spec, and that's not hard, and then you implement every major browser.

You're joking right? Sometimes it's hard to tell...

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#959

Post by Furmark »

MBCook wrote: post #395
MBCook wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DRM is only necessary because there exist (too many) people who don't have a zero-tolerance policy against DRM. Really? I can see a pretty good argument for why it SHOULD be legal. If I want to post some content I make online why shouldn’t I be able to try to protect it? And let’s not go through the ‘But Sony rootkit!’ stuff. You can make safe DRM. Rooting someone’s computer is already a crime, that’s why Sony in t…

Well that comment went as well as I expected. Can someone give a good argument why someone shouldn’t be able to use DRM to protect their content?

Can you give a good argument, why computer owner shouldn't be able to control what her computer is doing?

Why computer should not serve its owner best interest and instead serve interests of media companies?

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#960

Post by gsnedders »

nradov wrote: post #958
gsnedders wrote: post #957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parsers for invalid HTML are trivially easy to write: you literally just implement the spec, and that's not hard, and then you implement every major browser.

You're joking right? Sometimes it's hard to tell...

I'm not joking. It's not that hard. You literally pick up the spec and implement it, it's mostly just fairly boring menial work.
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