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Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#951

Post by Bartweiss »

hsod wrote: post #532
njarboe wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scott Alexander has a good article relating to this issue and Trump[1]. [1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wo...

"I stick to my thesis from October 2015. There is no evidence that Donald Trump is more racist than any past Republican candidate (or any other 70 year old white guy, for that matter). All this stuff about how he’s “the candidate of the KKK” and “the vanguard of a new white supremacist movement” is made up." I'm a big fan of SSC, but this thesis is not holding up very well

I'm not sure if it holds up poorly, or if it just cuts both ways.

I mean, Nixon's FBI tried to blackmail civil rights leaders and drive them to suicide. Strom Thurmond was in the Senate until 2002. The Klan endorsed Reagan, regardless of what he said in reply.

I agree that Trump has been frighteningly slow to condemn white supremacy, and that it holds more sway now than it did a decade ago. But on any time window longer than perhaps 15 years, I think it's fair to ask whether Trump is consequentially worse than his peers. Less diplomatic and more overt, to be sure, but is he actually driving more racial violence than Nixon did? I don't think so. The bar has been set horrifyingly low for a long time.

There seems to be a large excluded middle. Arguments that Trump's actions are not racist in consequence look downright absurd, but the claim that they could only be caused by Klan-level racism and are entirely dissimilar to similar modern politicians seems more like rehabilitating other racists than condemning Trump.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#952

Post by webXL »

Chris2048 wrote: post #784
nardi wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender, race, age, sexual orientation, etc. are “protected classes” that you can’t discriminate on. Being a Nazi is not a protected class. If you have a business, you can feel free to discriminate against Nazis. And you probably should.

This isn't so clear cut though. Religion is usually included in that list, even though That is pertly ideological. Recently, gender and/or sexual orientation/identity has become arguably ideological too. Racial identity has some problematic examples (are jews white? what about light-skinned hispanics?)

Can of worms doesn't even begin to describe these half-baked, feel-good, shortsighted, "shore up a few voting blocks" measures. Parents who petition the city council for soft playground surfaces have done humanity a great disservice. Just be grateful there is a playground and work to make sure others get playgrounds before you turn your child into someone who can't produce something of value without first making sure everyone else is following "the rules".

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#953

Post by EJTH »

rootlocus wrote: post #888
EJTH wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that I'm seeing any of these comments arguing to the contrary means HN is already infiltrated by /pol/ and other Nazi sympathizing groups. Infiltrated? You talk like having a different opinion than you justifies social stigma and exclusion, do you really think that helps anyone? I didn't realize that HN was full of 16 year old communists.

> I didn't realize that HN was full of 16 year old communists. Was the irony on purpose?

Why would you even reply? This is so out of context, and its a petty attempt at being snarky. I think its funny that /pol/ is better at engaging soberly in a political debate than a forum such as Y-combinator. At least add something more, an argument or you know just an actual REPLY.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#954

Post by mk89 »

twobyfour wrote: post #947
mk89 wrote: post #934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making them harder to for the vast majority of people to find is a major part of exactly how you shut a violent fascist movement down. Did you ever read about how Mussolini or Hitler gained their power? Do you really think that the governments back then didn't do anything to prevent what they were trying to start? That they didn't try to shut them down, etc.? We are talking about a severe social problem that unfort…

Listening to the issues they have? Sure. But they can talk about those issues in plenty of other forums. The forum that's specifically about hatred doesn't add anything to the dialog. What we want in order to avoid a repeat of Hitler's rise is for people looking for a place to vent and talk about real economic problems to find places to do so constructively , not places that say that the answer is "burn the n-----s!"…

Did you know the issues they had before they did what they did?

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#956

Post by dang »

genon wrote: post #324

Absolutely correct. He is also effectively saying that since he can and will remove sites he personally doesn't like, that he personally approves of every other site using Cloudflare. The excuse he uses for terminating TDS is an absolute crock; if TDS genuinely did falsely and sincerely claim that Cloudflare supports them, then Prince could and should have simply asked them to remove that claim. It's an outrage that…

Single-purpose accounts aren't allowed on HN, nor are accounts that use the site primarily for ideological battle. That isn't what HN is for, and it destroys what it is for. Therefore we ban such accounts, and I've banned this one. Would you please stop creating accounts to break HN's guidelines with?

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032227 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#957

Post by dang »

PeanutCurry wrote: post #341

I'm obviously being a bit facetious when I say this, but are there really few things worse than nazis? I'm not expert on the subject of neo-nazis or the nazi movement, so maybe this seems more complex because of my position of ignorance. But none of the statistics seem to imply that nazis are more than simply intellectually repulsive and socially disgusting. That's not to say that nazi affiliated groups never commit…

> I realize the significance of what the nazis accomplished in the past

Generic ideological tangents are a pox on HN to begin with, let alone when people are having flamewars about Nazis, and this is flamebait to the point of being a parody of flamebait. It has the effect of trolling whether you're intentionally trolling or not, and the effect is all we care about. Please don't post like this again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032574 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#958

Post by dang »

rangibaby wrote: post #221

slippery slope

Would you please not post like this here? Especially on divisive topics. If you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; otherwise please don't comment until you do.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032574 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#959

Post by dang »

davidreiss wrote: post #908
losvedir wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that I'm seeing any of these comments arguing to the contrary means HN is already infiltrated by /pol/ and other Nazi sympathizing groups. This is an extremely frightening statement to me. I'm terrified by the fact that you'd paint me as a Nazi sympathizer because my meta-level beliefs that text and speech should be protected are stronger than my object-level beliefs that Nazi philosophy is evil. The Nazis…

> This is an extremely frightening statement to me. It truly is to me as well. It's something you expect nazis to say. Imagine if the comment was "The idea that I'm seeing any of these comments arguing to the contrary means HN is already infiltrated by israel and other jewish sympathizing groups." It's a form of intimidation to silence groups one disagrees with. I can't believe his comment is the most upvoted on HN o…

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle and ignoring our request to stop. That's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and we ban accounts that abuse the site this way.

Would you please stop creating accounts to break the site guidelines like this?

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#960

Post by stale2002 »

chickenfries wrote: post #943
stale2002 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be protected in lots of ways! For example, society can start firing people who make arguments against free speech. We could start banning their accounts on the internet, and refusing to serve them at restaurants. Your freedom to support censorship doesn't mean that you are free from consequences! ;)

> For example, society can start firing people who make arguments against free speech. We could start banning their accounts on the internet, and refusing to serve them at restaurants. Yep, and at that point the only recourse you would have would be the government, right? > Your freedom to support censorship doesn't mean that you are free from consequences! ;) Your smugness suggests that you think this is surprising…

Perhaps we could make a law.

But at this point I think that it be better to just have a free market retaliatory war of "social consequences". IE, the pro censorship people get named and shamed and fired from their jobs (starting with the most extreme first)

Then the pro censorship people would try to fix the problem with laws, ect.

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