Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera • Hacker News Board

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#941

Post by throw0101d » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 6:15 PM UTC

aucisson_masque wrote: post #233

yoyohello13 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I have 2002 Honda accord and I’m dreading the day I need to get a modern car. My wife has a 2021 car and there is not a single feature it has that is necessary. In fact, many of them are actively bad. I’ve been driving every day, accident free, for 20 years and have never once needed lane assist, attention tracking or whatever the fuck. I wish there was a car that just had no additional ‘features’ beyond actual…

Then these features are not for you. They are for your kids when a distracted driver would crush their small skull with a 3T SUV.

> Then these features are not for you.

Which could (maybe) be fine if they could be permanently turned off (and not reset-to-on on every startup). Heck, even if it was a dealership-only change it would be something.

See recent driving 4 answers video on the silliness of some of these features:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-S76WEl25k

An alert that causes you to look down every time to enter an intersection/roundabout when you most need to be looking up? Warnings when you put on sunglasses?

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#942

Post by mrbombastic » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 6:23 PM UTC

randerson wrote: post #893

dvratil wrote: post #827

I sometimes wonder how these systems are being tested on the road and whether there's any feedback from the test drivers, or what kind of morons are there saying "this is completely fine, exactly like intended" when they read the feedback... My car has adaptive cruise control and will automatically adjust speed based on speed limit signs. I was on a highway at 130km/h and the car read a 60km/h speed limit sign that w…

My car (from VW Group) came with Active Lane Keep. It detects when you're drifting out of your lane and steers you back into it. Sounds great in theory. Except that in the US, if you're cruising in the right lane then every time there's an exit it will actively steer you towards the concrete median between the lane and the exit. I don't understand how this feature was signed off on. The risks outweigh the benefits, i…

Was driving in Lapland with a car like this, snow and ice everywhere on the road except in 2 narrow strips of pavement previous drivers had driven over, naturally it was not always in the exact area of lane that lane assist wanted me and I felt it was actively trying to kill me. Was able to disable but turned back on every time you stopped and started engine and I am forgetful.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#943

Post by warp » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 6:29 PM UTC

72deluxe wrote: post #802

warp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Volkswagen ID3, I love the adaptive cruise control. Yes, it gets it wrong in some spots (signage isn't great here in Asturias, Spain), and it gets it wrong in both directions (too slow at certain locations, too fast in others). But I still appreciate the convenience of not having to keep an eye on the speed nor the distance between the my car and the vehicles in front of me when driving on the freeway, where…

But how is it convenient to not pay attention to actually driving?? That doesn't sound like a convenience - that sounds dangerous

Most of my driving is in and around the city I live in, so by now I've learned which spots it gets wrong, and where I can rely on it.

Knowing I can just keep my eyes on the road and have the car make the speed limit changes for me feels more relaxing and safer, exactly because it's easier to pay attention to traffic if I don't have to look at the dashboard as often.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#944

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 6:37 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #926

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Japanese appliances actually do speak, but you'd probably have a hard time troubleshooting them. One day the normal sounds you're used to don't happen, and instead you hear "Kyūshi torei de kami ga tsumatte imasu." So you try to find a manual to understand what it means, and the manual has a Japanese section ("給紙トレイで紙が詰まっています。") and an English section ("The paper loader is jammed."). How do you know that the sou…

My point was the speech should say "jam" (in Japanese) and it will be better than a beep and an the text "jam" (in Japanese) is better than an icon. My old truck had a lever that had 3 positions: COOL HEAT DEFROST. Modern cars have all these idiotic icons and I can never figure out how to defrost.

Defrost is the little window icon with wavy lines on it. Same icon it's been since I started driving 25 years ago. According to the internet, it's been that way for 50 years, since it was standardized by ISO 2575-3:1975 ("Road vehicles — Symbols for controls, indicators and tell-tales"). Both US and European law decided in 1978 that everyone had to use the same icons.

And there's a user manual in the car, you know; RTFM?

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#945

Post by smilekzs » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 6:53 PM UTC

lelanthran wrote: post #700

WalterBright wrote: post #376

Boeing found out the problem with "beeping" alarms. The first time they installed a warning horn, I think it was the stall warning, it was a big success. So, they started adding different horns for other situations. At one point, in an emergency, the pilot got confused about which horn meant what, and had an accident. So now, Boeing replaced horns with a voice, like "pull up". Sounds obvious, right? But car beeps gen…

> But then some genius discovered that if you ran a wave form through a clipper which gave a sequence of 1s and 0s, running that produced quite a credible voice sound. I'd like to know more about this, actually.

Sigma-Delta Modulation

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#946

Post by tzs » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 7:03 PM UTC

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #683

tzs wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US passed a law in 2021 to require new cars to monitor driver alertness. The implementing regulations are being finished and it could apply to new cars as soon as 2027.

can you point to this law please? I can find news articles referencing that something may or may not happen but I can't find that this actually went into practice

The law in question is the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act which was enacted in 2021 [1].

Section 24209 requires regulators to research driver monitoring systems to deal with driver distraction, disengagement, automation complacency, and misuse of driver automation systems, and then to either start the rule making to implement such monitoring or report to Congress explaining why it cannot be done.

Section 24220 might also be relevant. That section is dealing with drunk and impaired driving, and part of that will be monitoring driver performance.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684...

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#947

Post by glitchcrab » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 7:05 PM UTC

psd1 wrote: post #906

vincnetas wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use OBD2 dongle to change default setting of lane assist to be off by default (after car starts) And many more setting that are decided for you as if you were using a rental car not your own. Like always reseting air conditioner to 22C after starting a car. God dammit i want 20C. Let it stay like that when i start a car.

> You can use OBD2 dongle to change default setting of lane assist Colour me skeptical. ODBII is just a protocol; it knows nothing of the modules on your buses. I think you will find you need the dealer software. Tools exist that implement big chunks of that functionality, but since they are built on reverse-engineering, the price approaches the dealer software anyway. The only place i found the Mercedes software was…

You're correct that the dongle only facilitates the connection, but you don't need dealer software. I have an ODB dongle and a £20 (I think) app on my phone which lets me change a _ton_ of settings on my BMW which aren't available in any in-car menus.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#948

Post by lopis » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 7:28 PM UTC

verzali wrote: post #746

lopis wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did an 8 hour ride on a rental recently in Central Europe, mostly through major motorways. The car dashboard disagreed with (apple) maps which disagreed with the road signage so often. The beeping was infuriating.

Apple maps so often disagree with reality.

So do I but fair point

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#949

Post by frollogaston » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 7:29 PM UTC

Ccecil wrote: post #609

frollogaston wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That works. I already got so used to disabling ESC on start that I do it unconsciously at this point, can't even recall afterwards that I did it. (My car is old and has a glitchy ESC)

I saw a mod where there was an arduino/lcd setup on the dash of an Audi to turn off the ESC and other annoyances on startup. I turn mine off quite often. On dirt roads and snow.

Yeah, there are ways if you figure out the manufacturer specifics. Thought it'd be fun to try capturing and replaying CAN messages, gave up cause whatever cheapo CAN to USB adapter I got wasn't working with my Linux laptop. Probably could've figured it out but decided it wasn't worth risking my 2005 Quattroporte with something that was feeling increasingly jank. Autel scanner already gave me all the read-only access I needed, including clutch wear.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#950

Post by tencentshill » Wed, Jul 08, 2026, 7:46 PM UTC

ruszki wrote: post #701

pzo wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but also: "ADDW systems use cameras and sensors to track a driver’s head position, eye movements, and gaze direction" and "only recording and retaining data on the device that is necessary for the system to function" Not sure why such stuff would need to be retained to function. Also if they need to track head position and gaze direction those definitely have to be higher resolution camera and/or pointing directly at…

> Not sure why such stuff would need to be retained to function It's quite difficult to know what happened in the previous frame without any kind of retention.

I assume volatile memory isn't considered retention under these laws. There are no regulations governing data destruction for RAM, except at the highest levels of secrecy, where they shred or melt the entire computer anyways.