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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#941
post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its not automatic due to bot activity. It is from people actively suppressing stories that don't want other people to see. Correct! The same people behind the US purchase of TikTok, for the same reason.

You're attributing a whole lot of agency to things that might have different factors. I can't downvote becuase though I've read HN since 2007ish, this is a new account. I would, however, probably downvote threads like this becuase out of all 600 comments, I don't think very many people have learned anything and a lot of blatantly false and sometimes racist stuff has been shared by people of every persuasion. I don't…

> Is the cause of Gaza or Israel bettered by this comment section?

Absolutely the cause of Gaza has been bettered by the thousands of comment sections. Again, the US wouldn't have bought TikTok if it didn't.

r/thedonald boosted the cause of Trumpism, posters on X have boosted the cause of extreme right wing nationalism in Europe. Discourse matters, that's why so many try to influence it. Reputation with the masses matters, that's why countries like KSA spend hundreds of billions on trying to shore it up.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#942

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens. This is the logic of conflicts in the middle east and many or probably most parts of the world. If you don't retaliate hard and defend yourself thoroughly, it is seen as weakness. Not much more sophisticated than how bullying works.

Sounds as if you're defending genocide style killing civilians.

Israel was attacked, you are mixing that up.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#943
post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously Palestinians were displaced and that needs to be addressed, but ethnic cleansing is a tough sell. Their population has multiplied by 20x since then.

Forced displacement due to the mass destruction of all facilities in an area consists exactly in ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing means : systemic removal of a group or person by another group of person in an area. And it's exactly what's happening. It makes no sense to say it's neither a genocide nor ethnic cleansing if the population grows. Same as saying there were no genocide or ethnic cleansing in Rwanda or Bo…

I mean by that definition, USA's immigration enforcement constitutes ethnic cleansing. I guess I just question your moral authority to second guess Israel's handling of their very unique situation.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#944
post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you remember any pro-Israeli posts you turned flags off for since the October 7 attack?

I can't remember virtually anything - this is not a joke - having one's brain be sandblasted by the firehose every day turns memory into a dodgy thing ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). I believe there have been some, though not as many. That's largely a function of the submission feed, i.e. which articles the community submits, upvotes, or flags. All we can do is respond case-by-cas…

Coincidentally, I just used hn.algolia to look up one of your old comments where you describe being sandblasted, and was surprised to find the most recent use of "sandblasted" on HN is by you, linking to an algolia search of you saying "sandblasted".

Thank you sincerely for your sacrifice, Dan. Whenever I have an urge to flame, I picture my impending comment as one more grain of sand speeding towards your cranium, and instead I step away from the keyboard.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#945

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this timeline (the Jews got there in the first place with the precise, declared intent of colonising somebody else's land. That's the whole point of Zionism). But more in general, there's no point in following a tit-for-tat that goes back 80 years or more with the intent of finding "who was the first". Each event further down the chain completely reverses the assessment, and you can't base any solid r…

> the Jews got there in the first place with the precise, declared intent of colonising somebody else's land. That's the whole point of Zionism Yes, but they were doing it by legally purchasing land, not through violent displacement. Arabs then rioted against Jewish communities, and that started the cycle of violence. And note how this push for Zionism coincides with a global expansion of antisemitism after WWI. The…

> but they were doing it by legally purchasing land

This is false- the land they purchased was only 12% of what they claimed at the moment of independence. Besides, privately buying land doesn't give you any right to declare sovereignty over it- try that in your country.

> The only place Jews could find reliable support was among their people

Sucks for them, but absolutely can't be used to justify a crime against a third party- the Palestinians.

> Jews purchased land from Arabs, Arabs repeatedly started conflicts with them and Jews repeatedly beat them back

This is entirely false and even a cursory reading of actual history (not the passively repeated Zionist propaganda points that you're exposing here) would change your mind.

> As for the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank today, I agree it's problematic, but what exactly Israel supposed to do when they keep getting attacked?

First of all they should not occupy any territory that doesn't belong to them, because that makes the attacks entirely reasonable and justified.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#946
I like Forensic Architecture’s work in general and I think this report is valuable as a micro-level reconstruction of a specific incident. That said, I think a lot of the HN discussion is treating it as if it captures the broader complexity of the conflict and I’m not sure thats what it can realistically do, at most, it leaves a lot of room for speculations - speculations which are fed by already existing bias of the reader (or so I see in the comments).

A few gaps that matter if we’re trying to reason beyond the single event:

Framing / conclusion baked in: terms like “executions” and “concealment” may ultimately be correct, but they’re also strong legal/moral claims that can bias interpretation unless the alternative hypotheses are seriously stress-tested. Its a dead giveaway of the writers bias. From this point on it looks like most biased readers do not try to critically tackle the reports claims.

Limited “steelman” of operational context - without full access to military comms, ISR feeds, ROE, intel context, and command decisions in real time, it’s hard to evaluate what soldiers believed they were responding to (even if they were wrong, negligent, or violating orders). Its a known practice that Hamas militants travel undercover using civilian/emergency vehicles - I think its really pathetic this report does not analyze nor even addresses this claim. This is not being objective, and most of you guys here are too critical-thinking to miss this one out (or is it a bot swamp here? i really dont know).

Evidence asymmetry - open-source reconstructions can be rigorous, but they inherently rely on what’s available (videos/audio/witness accounts). That’s different from having the complete internal dataset that would settle key disputes. I know this is the best effort available, but still, it leaves a lot of room for speculation. My expectations of FA were higher than that.

Conflation risk - a brutal case study can be an important data point, but it’s not automatically a comprehensive model of the war or the incentives/constraints on both sides.

“Here’s a detailed claim about what happened at Tel al-Sultan on that night.” would be a correct title for this report.

Curious what you think: what specific pieces of primary data would most change your confidence/speculations here? (e.g., full comms logs, drone video, ROE brief for that unit, chain-of-command timeline, etc.)

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#948
post #600

I would like to know: is there even a single person here, who actually changed his opinion regarding this whole matter upon seeing this report? Not confirmed anything, but actually was forced to re-evaluate his opinion. Like, previously you thought that IDF are good guys, and all Israel does is justified self-defense measures, and now you see this as genocide of Palestinians? Of course, I assume, the answer is — no o…

This report is too biased for a critical thinker to change their mind.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#949
post #938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of camps where jews and other "undesirables" were kept for long periods of time disproves this entirely. The Nazi's were not trying to speed run the process. They were systematically eliminating people. That's why it's a genocide and not a series of massacres. I would suggest sticking with the definition of genocide instead of coming up with your own convenient version.

You're just showing your ignorance. The Nazis killed the majority of their victims as soon as they arrived in the camp. They kept 20%-30%, mostly men who could work, to be used as slaves for their military industry, and they eliminated everyone else. They developed gassing especially in order to speed up the killing and make it more economical. It was a genocide because they tried to eliminate a specific ethnic group…

It doesn’t interest them. People who think what Israel is doing is anything like what the Nazis did have had their brain washed clean by anti-Semitic propaganda. It’s smooth as a volleyball in there, facts don’t matter.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#950

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because it would be admitting to the world that it has said weapons. Israel has always said it doesn't have nuclear weapons. They would have absolutely zero sympathy going forward from any major nation if they decided to drop a nuclear bomb on Gaza, and they want that land so rendering that land uninhabitable might not be a good idea.

The argument conveniently always goes such that Israel is the baddie. Curious how that goes, especially since Israels ulterior motives are always implied, they're not taken by their word. And Islamists, who share their motives openly with anyone willing to listen are ignored.

Genocide was literally in Hamas’s charter and yet somehow they’re the good guys because modern leftists can’t think past “colonialism bad”.
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