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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#941

Post by slightwinder »

Gareth321 wrote: post #822
corndoge wrote: post #746

I still don't understand what openclaw is or does and i've read the docs multiple times over. "Any OS gateway for AI agents across WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more. Send a message, get an agent response from your pocket. Plugins add Mattermost and more." "What is OpenClaw? OpenClaw is a self-hosted gateway that connects your favorite chat apps — WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more — to AI c…

It was surprisingly difficult for me to understand the use case as well. Here is my best attempt at an elevator pitch: At present your memories are proprietary data in whichever LLM you use. ChatGPT keeps all your conversations and output and data forever. What if you don't like GPT 5.2? What if you want to use other models as well? Or use the best model for the job? OpenClaw gives you that ability. Your memories and…

> At present your memories are proprietary data in whichever LLM you use.

There is an export-function.

> What if you want to use other models as well?

Then do that? Does one AI having chats with you, prevents you from using the other?

> Third, OpenClaw allows you to run your models as agents.

Don't they all allow that?

> We already have examples of these agents creating an AI religion

More like Humans playing bots, doing some shenanigans. That was all stage play, humans and bots role-playing what western culture expects to happen in such a scenario.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#942

Post by sowbug »

ithkuil wrote: post #919
sowbug wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, but not for long. Once my agent is interacting directly with your agent (as opposed to doing drafts of your work on your behalf), expectations will shift to 24/7 operation.

This is uncharted territory and very interesting.. We humans live with a strong requirement of reputation management which shapes the way that we do things. Once we have agents openly do things on our behalf but not in our voice, it will be interesting to see how of subpar performance or bad etiquette gets accepted just because agents don't have an individual personal reputation to maintain

There's no rude way to call an API. As more of human communication and commerce gets refactored into cold agentic interactions, the issue of reputation just vanishes.

But there's more than shifting etiquette standards at stake. Every BigCorp is currently reworking their APIs to be agent-friendly. CAPTCHAs and "Contact Sales" forms are being ripped out because they have no place in a world where the customer expects a complete transaction in the next 300 milliseconds. Agentic customers will demand agentic support, or else they'll take their RPCs elsewhere.

So what happens when you're CEO of BigCorp, and 90% of your customers are code, served by code, and the rest are messy humans who forget their passwords, complain that your website layout is confusing, and demand to speak to the manager? Is that last 10% worth keeping? Can you imagine Amazon in 2030 deprecating support for human customers?

Maybe this sounds cool, especially if OpenClaw agents have been doing all your domestic online chores for the past couple years. But along the way social grace was refactored out.

You take a life-saving prescription drug via an off-label usage, and your employer's PBM updates to Care Schema 2.3, which makes it semantically impossible to get a refill. Or you bend down to get the mail on your front porch, the wind slams your front door shut, and your fingerprint no longer works to open the door, because as of noon, your mortgage payment was past due. You could easily pay, but your phone is inside, next to your sleeping infant's crib. The system is operating as designed.

This is how the world would work when it's intended for agentic interactions and humans are an afterthought.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#943

Post by kristopolous »

heliumtera wrote: post #847
kristopolous wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not a new thing. Agents coding their own mcp servers I saw in the original demo of MCP when it was announced in 2024. The other thing is part of the plan&act mode paradigm that plandex also started in 2024. I'm not a cynic, I just follow the scene very closely. This stuff might be new to you, but it's not new. There's literally nothing that this thing is doing that I haven't been doing for a few years already…

You forget to mention the cult like audience of karpathy and pelican guy. Whatever pelican guy says becomes the week Show HN theme.

simon's stuff is generally good though.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#944

Post by derivagral »

corndoge wrote: post #884
mbrock wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you stop trying to find something like truly ontologically novel about it, you might be able to understand what it actually is. Okay it's not impressive. It's not incredible. It's not groundbreaking new technology. It is what it is.

It is being discussed as though it were ontologically novel, karpathy is saying it's something new and he is an authority, so to me there is something here that i am not seeing. I promise i am not trying to be a naysayer or poke holes, I am literally just trying to find out what the hell it is. I would install it but i don't want to install something without knowing what it does, and what is written in the docs is cl…

Nontechnical people I know are buying hardware to run claws on. As I understand it, the innovation here isn't the tech but in availability/ease of access.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#945

Post by Ancapistani »

alterom wrote: post #927
heliumtera wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget to mention the cult like audience of karpathy and pelican guy. Whatever pelican guy says becomes the week Show HN theme.

I hate that I understand what "pelican guy" refers to.

Weird for a random guy that I've met a half dozen times at conferences to be setting taste for effectively my whole professional world.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#946

Post by nsonha »

simonw wrote: post #860
nsonha wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, just so it seems like they gave it a proper look when they did not? Btw a vps is another choice even more obvious.

As others have pointed out the problem with a VPS is that it doesn't run macOS, which means it can't integrate with a bunch of popular OpenClaw tools like AppleScript and iMessage. You can rent Mac machines in the cloud but they're expensive . Buying a Mac mini isn't a bad option.

why do you even need MacOS? Again OpenClaw works in linux and any other option of messaging is better than iMessage. As for AppleScript, if the intention is computer use. I have never seen it done to any useful result, OpenClaw or not. What will realistically be useful is driving the browser (web apps), and you don't need MacOS for it.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#947

Post by daxfohl »

sph wrote: post #799
daxfohl wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of "User eXperience", a new profession "Agent eXperience" will arise.

Favouriting your comment, to come say you were right in one year's time.

Haha, well, assuming this agent stuff is ever reliable / secure / worthwhile enough for mass consumption. Beyond geeks reading HN.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#948

Post by simonw »

nsonha wrote: post #946
simonw wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have pointed out the problem with a VPS is that it doesn't run macOS, which means it can't integrate with a bunch of popular OpenClaw tools like AppleScript and iMessage. You can rent Mac machines in the cloud but they're expensive . Buying a Mac mini isn't a bad option.

why do you even need MacOS? Again OpenClaw works in linux and any other option of messaging is better than iMessage. As for AppleScript, if the intention is computer use. I have never seen it done to any useful result, OpenClaw or not. What will realistically be useful is driving the browser (web apps), and you don't need MacOS for it.

Because your stuff lives in the Apple ecosystem - Apple Notes, iMessage etc - and you want your claw to be able to access it.

Personally I think that's a terrible idea because of the lethal trifecta risk but it's what a lot of people want to do.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#949

Post by heliumtera »

kristopolous wrote: post #943
heliumtera wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget to mention the cult like audience of karpathy and pelican guy. Whatever pelican guy says becomes the week Show HN theme.

simon's stuff is generally good though.

Never said otherwise, legit a legend

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#950

Post by heliumtera »

Ancapistani wrote: post #945
alterom wrote: post #927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate that I understand what "pelican guy" refers to.

Weird for a random guy that I've met a half dozen times at conferences to be setting taste for effectively my whole professional world.

We never know...
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