Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Europe you typically have travel insurance on debit cards as well.
Certainly not the case in Sweden. Although travel insurance is usually included in your home/renters insurance.
Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#942What about GNU Taler[1]? If we're doing that to have yet another monopoly, I don't see the point. Even if it's European. [1]: https://www.taler.net/en/
Is it backed with a large amount of money to hedge against the risk that the privacy or security could be flawed in some unexpected way? Are there people lobbying for its adoption at scale that can make cast-iron assurances about liability? Business people do not rely on technical proofs because they don't want to become cryptography.software engineering experts.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#943I'm surprised that Canada doesn't seem to be talking about doing this. We've already got a strong payment processing brand with Interac, it's used daily for millions of debit transactions, and supports all the features you'd expect (in Canada) from a payment card (tap, chip&pin). There's also the MasterCard Debit and Visa Debit branding which seem to bridge debit transactions to the MasterCard and Visa networks. And…
Interac strong? Are you serious? That thing can take up to 30 minutes to receive your money! (source: interac.ca)
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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#944Earlier quoted context omitted.
so something that is a horrible store of value, has monumental transaction fees, non-instant confirmation and is associated by laypersons mostly with speculation, fraud & illegal transactions will solve those?
You just described fiat. Terrible store of value(worse than bitcoin) Horrible International transaction fees(swift much worse than bitcoin) Most money laundering and criminal activities happen in the current banking system.
That's just a deflection, and a great example of how to slow down crypto adoption.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#945Earlier quoted context omitted.
> since they still don't accept Apple Pay/Google Pay. When I go in and make a purchase using my credit or debit card, they'll associate it with my Walmart account Why wouldn't they be able to do that with at least Google Pay? I pay with my phone using Google Pay at a Swedish grocery store chain and it's connected to my loyalty account there. (Since I don't use Apple Pay I don't know if the same works there.)
I guess I'm not familiar with how Google Pay actually works, I assumed it was the same as Apple Pay. With Apple Pay the merchant gets a randomized card number on every transaction.
Too late to edit my comment, but it looks like I didn't quite understand how Apple Pay works either. After a little more research on both of them, here's the gist of it: Apple Pay and Google Pay both create a "Device Account Number" for your card, and this number never changes. When you tap your phone to pay, it generates a one-time cryptogram for the transaction which will always be unique. I was under the impression that merchants only get the cryptogram, but that's not the case – merchants get both the cryptogram and the DAN during the purchase.
The problem is, since the DAN is a stable number that never changes per card, they can save it and use it to recognize you across visits. That's how stores can tie Apple Pay/Google Pay transactions to loyalty programs without scanning a separate card. The DAN doesn't differentiate between online/in-app purchases and physical purchases either, though the number is different between devices (i.e. use phone to pay in-store, use computer or tablet to shop for groceries). But realistically, Apple Pay/Google Pay would only marginally improve the privacy in the Walmart scenario, which is a bummer.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#946Earlier quoted context omitted.
> cash back benefits Only in the U.S. In many other countries the processing fees are regulated by the government so the banks can't afford to give you your "cash back".
How dare Europe force card companies to distribute the cost of being poor on all customers. Cashback is effectively a special fee levied exclusively on those who don't qualify.
I was told the other day that the people most likely to choose to avoid the extra 2.5% fees are the wealthier.
In New Zealand, most low margin business (like cafes) ask you to accept an ~2.5% transaction fee (if you use a credit card or paywave). You can avoid the fee by using a debit card with a chip.
I'm unsure what choice the poorer make. If you're actually low income, maybe you don't go to cafes.
I did notice that a thrift store didn't charge the extra 2.5%: so perhaps poorer people have more pressure to use cards with fees?
Amex is noted for its high fees - so perhaps it is a bathtub where only the middleclass care.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#947Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t see why they can’t just piggyback on existing, proven solutions such as Bancontact, Carte Bleu, etc., which are all based on a card running on its own network. If it’s app-based, we’re excluding quite some citizens from it.
Visa bought Carte Bleue in 2011. Yep.
The selling of sovereign infrastructure to foreign actors is a failure of regulation. I’m baffled as to why that was approved.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#948Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU is built on rules that uphold liberal democratic principles, agreed to by national governments in a flush of post-WW2 clarity, and which tie successors to the same principles. There are exit mechanisms, but they impose large costs (i.e. Brexit).
You're saying nothing concrete in particular. What rules? How do they inhibit change? The only thing I can think of which is actually difficult to change is the echr and i see more than a dozen mostly liberal governments queueing up to change it (to little effect so far) over migration issues.
There are rules about election conduct and free operation of courts, to give two examples. Both of which Hungary skirts on occasion but the EU does apply some pressure.
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#949Earlier quoted context omitted.
You guys use the debit card linked to your primary bank account??? There's been virtual cards for online shopping for 10+ years now. They're meant to be linked to an empty or low amount bank account. Now with Revolut you can schedule auto top-up to keep this low amount up to date. Not to mention the per-purchase (online/in-person) limits, mandatory PIN entry, and daily maximums...
We don't use any cards for online shopping, what do you mean? In most European countries online shopping uses a payment API that takes you to your bank's payment portal where you can review the transaction amount before confirming. It's no longer the 20th century, we're not handing out any card details to online merchants.
Ah yes let me forego the chargeback protections (and convenience of one tap Apple Pay) to reduce merchants fee by 0.2% of transaction value, sounds great
Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun
#950Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would never buy a plane ticket on debit. Airbnb reservations I also tend to do on credit. Anything related to company expenses I also do on credit and receive reimbursement prior to having to pay it myself.
Those 'protections' have nothing to do with the purchase being credit or debit. They're just artificial incentives from the banks for you to pile on the debt. We frown on that behaviour here in the EU so it doesn't really happen. The same with the cashbacks american banks offer on credit cards, they're just paid by the extortionate card processing fees that vendors pay. So essentially, you are paying for your own cas…
> Besides, if you want insurance just get a 30€ per year rolling package.
My credit card has a yearly fee of €36 (and it’s not like having a debit card instead would have been free). The total annual insurance premiums of all insurances that it includes (travel, third party liability, purchase) would exceed €200 from the same provider.