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Apple M5 chip

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Re: Apple M5 chip

#941

Post by pbasista »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #837
pbasista wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is Asahi these days? Much less active than it used to be when it was run by Hector Martin. The core development is a lot slower. Although the graphics stack, for instance, has reached a very mature state recently. > Is it ready as a daily driver? It depends. Only M1 and M2 devices are reasonably well-supported. There is no support for power-efficient sleep, Display Port, Thunderbolt, video decoding or encoding,…

Am I misrepresenting the situation or did the whole project seemingly fall apart over an argument between Hector and Linus Torvalds in the mailing list about getting some driver merged?

I would consider that to be a misinterpretation. The whole project did not fall apart because Hector Martin left. But as with any project where the leaders depart, it definitely got slower.

The argument was originally about merging some Rust code into some parts of the Linux kernel if I remember correctly. It did not involve Linus Torvalds directly. Rather, the respective maintainers of those specific parts were unwilling to merge some Rust code, mostly because they did not know Rust well and they did not want to acquire the responsibility to maintain such code.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#942

Post by freehorse »

speedgoose wrote: post #245
kokada wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same tasks ive been last couple of years. I have a work provided M2 Pro with 32GB of RAM. After the Tahoe upgrade it feels like one of the sluggish PCs at the house. It is the only one that I can see the mouse teleporting sometimes when I move it fast. This is after disabling transparency in Accessibility settings mind you, it was even worse before.

Do you have a few electron powered apps that didn’t get updated yet? Electron used to override a private function that makes the Mac OS sluggish on Tahoe, and apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple.

> apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple

Or also the other way around, nobody who develops electron apps cares to test their app on macos in the beta releases (beta testing for developers was long out afaik).

Except if it was like that JIT JVM bug that caused apps to crash and was not in the beta release.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#943

Post by pbasista »

neobrain wrote: post #879
pbasista wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is Asahi these days? Much less active than it used to be when it was run by Hector Martin. The core development is a lot slower. Although the graphics stack, for instance, has reached a very mature state recently. > Is it ready as a daily driver? It depends. Only M1 and M2 devices are reasonably well-supported. There is no support for power-efficient sleep, Display Port, Thunderbolt, video decoding or encoding,…

Good and fair comment. Just adding some nuance: > There is no support for power-efficient sleep "power-efficient sleep" refers to discharging 1-2% battery over night rather than 10-20%. I.e. there's room for improvement, but the device can still be used without worrying much about battery life regardless (especially given how far a full charge gets you even without sleep). > Display Port, Thunderbolt Big item indeed,…

> On my M1 Air I've never seen anything like this

My experience is also based on a M1 Macbook Air. I have repeatedly experienced sudden muting of the speakers for a second or two while playing conversations on a high volume.

I only assume it is caused by thermal management of the speakers but I did not actually verify it.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#944

Post by rldjbpin »

hereme888 wrote: post #563

Base models only: - M1 | 5 nm | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 7–8 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 68.25 GB/s | Unified Memory: 16 GB | Geekbench6 ~2346 / 8346 - M2 | 5 nm (G2) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~2586 / 9672 - M3 | 3 nm (first-gen) | 8 (4P+4E) | GPU 8–10 | 16-core Neural | Memory Bandwidth: 100 GB/s | Unified Memory: 24 GB | Geekbench6 ~296…

just looking at this, this is yet another tock phase, breaking the two-year cyclic pattern.

the boost seems mainly due to higher memory bandwidth and slightly different architecture.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#946

Post by emn13 »

morshu9001 wrote: post #683
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The single thread performance for modern high performance CPUs are all very close to each other. Apple's latest usually has a small advantage because they're the first to use TSMC's latest nodes, which is good for something like 15-20%. The fastest multicore CPUs are the ones with a lot of cores, e.g. 64+ core Threadrippers. These have approximately the same single-core performance as everything else from the same ge…

I was going by Geekbench. If it's broken then yeah.

It's not trash - it's quite nice for its niche. It's just not very scalable with cores, so it's best interpreted as a benchmark of lightly threaded workloads - like lots of typical consumer workloads are (gaming, web browsing, light office work). Then again, it's not hard to find workloads that scale much better, and geekbench 6 doesn't really have a benchmark for those.

For the first 8 threads or so, it's fine. Once you hit 20 or so it's questionable, or at least that's my impression.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#948

Post by mocenigo »

tomalbrc wrote: post #848
runjake wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably due to the Electron bug[1]. A lot of common apps haven't patched up yet. I also have an M2 Pro with 32GB of memory. When I A/B test with Electron apps running vs without, the lag disappears when all the unpatched Electron apps are closed out. 1. https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ Here's a script I got from somewhere that shows unpatched Electron apps on your system: Edit: HN nerfed the script. Foun…

Should we not be shaming apple for their recent software releases? Every bit of the os is N times slower than on the previous macOS version. Safari has been unusable. Constant lags and crashes in the shipped browser alone. We are back in Windows Vista times

This is weird. I have an M3 MBAir and it does not feel slower than under Sequoia at all.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#949

Post by drtiberius »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #324

A computing device named M5 with highly advanced AI capabilities meant for enterprise (or Enterprise) computing environments? Uh-oh, I think I'll pass; I saw this episode of Star Trek (TOS: The Ultimate Computer) before. Hope the owner's manual comes with a warning not to wear a red shirt anywhere near it, dohohoho. (Perhaps it would be safer to wait for The Next Generation?)

The M5 Multitronic Unit is now in charge of the military, Captain Dunsel. We are doomed

Re: Apple M5 chip

#950

Post by thewebguyd »

speedgoose wrote: post #245
kokada wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same tasks ive been last couple of years. I have a work provided M2 Pro with 32GB of RAM. After the Tahoe upgrade it feels like one of the sluggish PCs at the house. It is the only one that I can see the mouse teleporting sometimes when I move it fast. This is after disabling transparency in Accessibility settings mind you, it was even worse before.

Do you have a few electron powered apps that didn’t get updated yet? Electron used to override a private function that makes the Mac OS sluggish on Tahoe, and apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple.

> apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple.

You have it the other way around. It should be, apparently no one making Electron bothered to test on the numerous developer and public betas to make sure their hacky override of undocumented APIs (which Apple explicitly says not to use) didn't break.

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