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Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

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Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#941

Post by topranks »

have_faith wrote: post #548
narrator wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you do fractional reserve banking with stablecoins where you lend out the underlying dollars to people and don't have full reserves? That's what makes banking tricky. When there are a surge of loan defaults across the banking system the money supply shrinks rapidly unless the government bails them out. Thus, the need for regulation. One reason the U.S government has to like stablecoins is because Tether is one of…

In FIAT money lending is the act of money creation, rather than lending existing money held in account. I’m guessing that wouldn’t have a parallel with stablecoins because the technology won’t let you just make new money at will?

Not unless you lie about what money you have and just print them out of thin air.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#943

Post by topranks »

sunshine-o wrote: post #615
wredcoll wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not have a central bank currency that can be traded on the blockchain, especially since converting it to real money will still entail KYC? Because literally the only point is to avoid the existing banking system and you can do that with a postures database with much less cpu involved.

> Because literally the only point is to avoid the existing banking system and you can do that with a postures database with much less cpu involved. Ethereum is actually very low resource intensive nowadays. You can run a validator node on a RPI, a full sync node on a Intel N100 minipc with a big fast SSD and the "light clients" can probably run on something very small. I have seen banks having to bring semi-trailers…

Just because they ditch the proof-of-work doesn’t make it efficient.

The blockchain structure, the validation mechanism etc are still a very inefficient way to do general compute or database type functions.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#944

Post by topranks »

algo_lover wrote: post #408
wredcoll wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not have a central bank currency that can be traded on the blockchain, especially since converting it to real money will still entail KYC? Because literally the only point is to avoid the existing banking system and you can do that with a postures database with much less cpu involved.

But with multiple parties involved, who has the rights to read and write to the postgres instance? How do we make sure transactions were not forged? How do we know data at rest is not being tampered with? Blockchain solves that. Newer blockchain protocols especially an L1 is much faster, easier on the environment, and provides all the immutability, transparency, and traceability benefits.

We need to trust those running the system.

Societies cannot function without trusted intermediaries, in finance and many other things.

If we are in a democracy then the government regulates such organisations and should punish those who do not comply.

Blockchain doesn’t scale as a replacement so the point is moot.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#945

Post by topranks »

varenc wrote: post #778
dperfect wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds great, but every time I see this argument, I end up going down the rabbit hole of actually studying how stablecoins operate. And every time, I come to the same conclusion: they always rely on trust in an off-chain oracle or custodian. At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. Bitcoin (and possibly a few others) is one of…

> Implement something the banks just aren't willing to do themselves? I think that's it. We're very unlikely to see international transactions between banks happen as easily and as quickly as they can with a stablecoin, even though it's technically possible. I think part of what makes it easier is that with crypto there's "no take backs" since it's largely impossible. Banks have to worry about fraud constantly becaus…

Stablecoin issues are just waving their hands and saying “blockchain” to try to magic away that liability.

Otherwise they’re doing the exact same thing.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#946

Post by topranks »

acchow wrote: post #720
dperfect wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds great, but every time I see this argument, I end up going down the rabbit hole of actually studying how stablecoins operate. And every time, I come to the same conclusion: they always rely on trust in an off-chain oracle or custodian. At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. Bitcoin (and possibly a few others) is one of…

> they always rely on trust in an off-chain oracle or custodian. At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. International wire money transfer is far too difficult today. And after you've sent it, you still need to wait minutes (hours?) for the receiving end's bank to actually process the wire and move it into the recipient's account…

I get a push notification if a wire comes in.

And if I send one I’m carful the details are correct, but I’m not completely doomed if I typo the account number.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#947

Post by topranks »

ta12653421 wrote: post #911
reubenmorais wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can transfer money from Europe to Brazil in seconds with Wise. I press the button and the money is nearly instantly available in the Brazilian account via PIX. The same in the reverse direction is possible but only if you have a more modern bank in Europe, eg. N26 or Revolut.

Not the full picture: Wise is that big that it has already lots of local accounts and/or correspondent banks; so basicly "you get the money from Wise" but from a "local payment way/scheme" (to which Wise is connected in the background through several layers)

This is a much more optimal solution than blockchain.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#948

Post by topranks »

cm2187 wrote: post #818
dperfect wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds great, but every time I see this argument, I end up going down the rabbit hole of actually studying how stablecoins operate. And every time, I come to the same conclusion: they always rely on trust in an off-chain oracle or custodian. At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. Bitcoin (and possibly a few others) is one of…

The only convincing explanation of the benefits of stablecoins I have seen is that it is a backdoor for implementing narrow banking, which libertarians love and economists and central bankers hate (as it would cut off credit to the economy). A narrow bank is a bank that takes deposits but doesn't make loans, basically parks the cash at the central bank or into risk free instruments. So it provides you with payment fa…

Thank you for this explanation!

I had tried to describe this effect recently when Trump lowered bank reserve requirements, urging traditional banks to buy stablecoins with the extra funds this gives them.

My comment was that it increased risk (less reserves), without any potential upside in new economic activity. Basically all the money would flow to the govt in the form of treasuries the stablecoin issuers buy.

As opposed to the banks, you know, lending money to businesses.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#949

Post by topranks »

theptip wrote: post #616
dperfect wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds great, but every time I see this argument, I end up going down the rabbit hole of actually studying how stablecoins operate. And every time, I come to the same conclusion: they always rely on trust in an off-chain oracle or custodian. At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. Bitcoin (and possibly a few others) is one of…

> At that point, a shared ledger implemented with traditional databases / protocols would be faster, easier, and more transparent. What open-source shared ledger would you suggest is a better fit?

postgres

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#950

Post by wholisticguy »

wredcoll wrote: post #385
SkidanovAlex wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important aspect of blockchain that is relevant here is that your counterparty half a world away and you both agree that you trust the state of this blockchain, and thus can transact on it. For business running the same code on their 1 node instead of N is not a replacement, because their counterparty has no reason to trust whatever is running on that 1 node. Your reasoning re: N nodes are expensive is also…

> For business running the same code on their 1 node instead of N is not a replacement, because their counterparty has no reason to trust whatever is running on that 1 node I mean, why are you doing this kind of business with someone where you can't even trust that? Aside from that, block chains only provide trust if they're meaningfully decentralized. These hyper specific b2b ones seem unlikely to pass that test. Ex…

This is the main value of a blockchain. You can do business with someone you don't specifically trust without requiring a third party in the middle to mediate the financial transaction.

The only people that need to run a verifier node are those that don't trust the other verifier nodes to do it properly. It's opt in, most will not run one, but a business that has enough money at stake can if they want to.

Then the blockchain client software provides the framework for cryptographic assurance that the two copies of the ledger are in sync.

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