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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#941

Post by etherealG »

mothballed wrote: post #805
etherealG wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I might enjoy the CPS scenario... let them call CPS, and wait for CPS to arrive, and then discuss with CPS who is endangering the child, the parent or the school. I'm pretty sure a judge will quickly decide whether their rule makes sense or not, and I think judges in child protection cases are going to quickly side with what's important for the child. I HATE this kind of nonsense, and threatening you as a par…

Well the judge will likely rule the app is bullshit, but in the meantime CPS will argue they need to go into your house, look to see if you have a dirty dish, or the wrong proportion of snacks to vegetables, or maybe take notice your child is playing independently outside while they come around. Then they will portray that in the most insane way possible, and since it is a civil and not criminal process their is no r…

I'm so sorry that's the situation in your country. Another answer to your message from Germany is pretty close to my experience in France, child protection is way less combative and genuinely invested in what's good for children.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#942

Post by Nursie »

const_cast wrote: post #838
Nursie wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bank should be able to discriminate, they should be allowed to say they only work on locked devices, surely. It’s a security measure, particularly as we place more responsibility on banks to prevent their customers being defrauded.

You must allow your government issued brain chip in order to have money. But don't worry citizen - you have the choice. You can always choose to never have money. How will we use the brain chip? Citizen, for your security, you must not ever see the brain chip software. You must trust it is perfectly secure and will not be used for nefarious reasons. All citizens who deny the brain chip, please board the train to your…

This is just facile and childish.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#943

Post by Nursie »

daurentius523 wrote: post #751
Nursie wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always inform them of the consequences This would be about as useful as telling the cat why he can’t go out right now. The words would not be understood, as they won’t be by probably 90% of humanity. > If they want to… They don’t. Categorically. The only reason they would try is because they are being scammed with offers of getting something or cajolement entreating them to allow it. > Why should you have control w…

>They don’t. Categorically. They do. Categorically. > The only reason they would try is because they are being scammed with offers of getting something or cajolement entreating them to allow it. F-Droid installed German university made QR app. Messaging app that government does not like because it disallows spying on citizens. > The current status quo serves them and many millions of other people very well Said you.…

> They do. Categorically.

I’m amused by the idea you might know my family better than me, but fun as that is, you don’t.

> If you want apple go apple.

This is the whole point - I do want Apple. I want Apple for my far less capable family members. People in this thread are asking for Apple to be forcibly changed, without understanding that most people are well served by the Apple model.

If you want open, buy open. Make it a viable market. Don’t take away the rails that ordinary people don’t even know are there.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#944

Post by Nursie »

zigzag312 wrote: post #699
Nursie wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always inform them of the consequences This would be about as useful as telling the cat why he can’t go out right now. The words would not be understood, as they won’t be by probably 90% of humanity. > If they want to… They don’t. Categorically. The only reason they would try is because they are being scammed with offers of getting something or cajolement entreating them to allow it. > Why should you have control w…

You are overblowing it out of proportions. Majority of people are capable of understanding warnings just fine, you're not that special. When they can't, it's usually because it was communicated poorly. More often, they choose to ignore it, because of too many useless and overblown warnings. Why aren't your family members sending money to the Nigerian prince? I bet your parents and brother are able to perform money tr…

> Majority of people are capable of understanding warnings just fine

I think you overestimate the level of tech competency in the world, significantly, and this colours your entire take on this area.

I think people who want open devices should show their support by buying open devices, and leave the rest of humanity happy in their walled gardens

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#945

Post by Nursie »

alirezaxdehghan wrote: post #736
Nursie wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always inform them of the consequences This would be about as useful as telling the cat why he can’t go out right now. The words would not be understood, as they won’t be by probably 90% of humanity. > If they want to… They don’t. Categorically. The only reason they would try is because they are being scammed with offers of getting something or cajolement entreating them to allow it. > Why should you have control w…

I remember that in order to unlock the bootloader of my trusty old Xiaomi Mi 5 (I still use it to this day as a test device for development) I had to go to some website, say that I'm happy with unlocking it, agreeing to the terms and stuff and at the end be willing to wipe my device clean and have an "unlocked" written under my boot animation. I think these would stop your average joe, but now I've heared Xiaomi has…

That sounds to me like it used to be quite a good thing.

Chromebooks certainly used to do that too. The device would wipe and restart in ‘dev’ mode if you wanted it unlocked. It seems like a good level of protection.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#946

Post by anonzzzies »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

We definitely need laws stopping companies from this lock in, especially companies that have no relation with Google/Apple. Countries should demand companies to allow access to their services with a sufficiently modern browser (let's say less than one year old) with a minimum of 3 supported browsers by different providers (so no, not only chrome). Everyone has browsers on laptop, phone etc, so it's the best middle ground.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#947

Post by geokon »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

my personal craziest example

in taiwan you can't pay customs dues without a half broken government app

this is necessary for ANY shippment from abroad

no website, no phone number, no office you can drop into. You can technically file a paper form to some office in taipei, but it made clear its for large commercial import shippments and not "normal people"

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#948

Post by j4102_ »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #650
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

The only solution I see is some decentralized way of governing. And even if this gains mass support, I still forsee some centralized way of how rules are enforced that can also cut off your relationship as well. Efficiency v.s privacy tradeoff I guess.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#949

Post by touristtam »

euLh7SM5HDFY wrote: post #411
zmmmmm wrote: post #165

> In this context this would mean having the ability and documentation to build or install alternative operating systems on this hardware It doesn't work. Everything from banks to Netflix and others are slowly edging out anything where they can't fully verify the chain of control to an entity they can have a legal or contractual relationship with. To be clear, this is fundamental, not incidental. You can't run your o…

> Everything from banks to Netflix and others I have unlocked bootloader. That's it, I don't even have enabled root account. One app refuses to work anyway: McDonald’s. I actually can't decide if it is more funny or scary.

I'll be "funny" to publish findings about apps on a very public page and see it being brought to the forefront of the news cycle. A bit of a name and shame type of things, since Corps don't seem to understand any other language.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#950

Post by conductr »

etherealG wrote: post #801
mothballed wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own a phone, but the most shocking revelation came when my child's school required us to use an app to specify how our children will be picked up or ride the bus. So far I've been able to avoid using apps for pretty much anything, but when the school says "use an app or you won't get your kids" and then also say they will call CPS and have your kids seized if you don't get them in time, that puts you in a rea…

I think I might enjoy the CPS scenario... let them call CPS, and wait for CPS to arrive, and then discuss with CPS who is endangering the child, the parent or the school. I'm pretty sure a judge will quickly decide whether their rule makes sense or not, and I think judges in child protection cases are going to quickly side with what's important for the child. I HATE this kind of nonsense, and threatening you as a par…

Spoken as a non-parent? No parent I know would be willing to test fate in that manner.
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