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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#941

Post by kavenkanum »

basisword wrote: post #389

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

It seems that this was a very cold and unexpected shower for all of us in Europe (maybe except Hungary) and now there is a big focus on working together against our common enemy and finding other more reliable partners. It's a pity we were relying this much on Americans for so long... Now we have motivation to change approach. And do it fast!

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#942

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #739

It's interesting, but not entirely surprising, that Trump is kowtowing to Putin and giving Putin everything he wants. Could it be something to do with the Kompromat the Kremlin reportedly has on him? Putin would like to restore the former Soviet union, he said that the collapse of the Soviet union was a catastrophe. The war in Ukraine is the beginning of Putin trying to rectify this. So if he wins the war in Ukraine,…

Alternative interpretation:

Or.. you know, focusing on the interest of US, which does not automatically mean sending unlimited amount of money/gear/intelligence to Ukraine. After all, Ukraine is not part of NATO. There are no obligations to follow here. And Russia as an unfriendly country in future conflicts may complicate things further.

Yes. There is an argument to be made about what happens afterwards in baltics, but those countries are part of NATO, which is a different consideration.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#943

Post by tim333 »

hmm9900 wrote: post #930

Hard not to think Zelensky wants Ukraine war to leak out to Europe. This was the case when Ukrainian army shot rockets above Polish terriory resulting in two deaths, Ukraine never apologized. Same as they proclaimed Stepan Bandera their national hero, honestly crimes committed by germans during wwII were nothing compared to what UPA led by Bandera did. I hope this war will be soon over.

It seems the S-300 missile hitting a grain silo in Poland was an accident, and the Banderea stuff was a while ago.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#945

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

asnyder wrote: post #511

Honestly, after watching the full press conference twice, I suspect this meeting will go down in history as a canonical example of "what not to do as a politician". It seems Zelensky was unaware he's dealing with Trump, his demeanor, and his presidency. Historical this or that is not applicable when dealing with someone like him. Trump will be Trump, and nobody should expect otherwise. Always best to understand and k…

I wonder about that. Z was already in a pretty bad position on US-side, but this blowout only strengthens his position on EU side and in his own country. He also manages to get attention of anti-T people in US. Politically, it may have been the only 'good' move for him. If I was a leader of a country, I sure would not want to sign a 'deal' like this and be responsible for what it does to it ( which seems to suggest that Z is probably the least like other politicians, who would sell their own mother if the price was right ).

I obviously might be wrong, but I think there is a level of misunderstanding on what actually is happening.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#946

Post by tim333 »

AlexatParis wrote: post #303

I am born in Ukraine and live now in Europe. As European I may understand your disappointment with the West letting down some "rules based" order and democratic values. Yet as Ukrainian, I know unfortunately that the premises of the "rules based world" do not apply to many regions in the world, inclusive Ukraine. Let me explain, a rule-based order means that the monopoly of violence is the privilege of the state: if…

>accept the neutrality

They were neutral and yet Russia invaded.

About the only major thing Zelensky could have done differently was to get on a flight out when the 2022 invasion happened and let Putin take over. I don't know if you think that would have been better? There would have been less deaths certainly. But if you look at how the Russians behave in places like Bucha it's not very nice.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#947

Post by arp242 »

basisword wrote: post #389

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

We can do both: prepare for a future without the US, while at the same time trying to make the best of the relationship with the current madcap US government. I don't think there's a conflict between those two. Completely burning bridges at this point seems unwise.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#948

Post by mxschumacher »

captainkrtek wrote: post #377

Absolutely heartbreaking. How many of the people arguing have seen any footage of the atrocities committed by Russia. It is sobering to see women and children shelled in their homes and hospitals. 20 Days in Mariupol is free to watch on Youtube (Won the Academy Award for Best Documentary last year): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAyykRvPBo

also blocked in France

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#949

Post by tim333 »

uptownfunk wrote: post #718

Everyone knows this is just a publicity stunt and a distraction from Elon Doge. Zelenskyy is a puppet anyway. Thats why he is so confused. “You guys put me here wtf”

Who is Zelenskyy a puppet of? If you say the Americans then that meeting was a strange thing.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#950

Post by throwaind29k »

basisword wrote: post #389

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

What we are seeing from Europeans in response is rather weak sabre rattling.

They don't seem to give an impression of being able to work out a coherent policy or show any initiative.

The EU leaders, include Ursula Von Leyen speak big noble sounding words, but do very little.

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