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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#941

Post by computerthings »

cbeach wrote: post #876
zfg wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk is a libertarian not an authoritarian. What, your claim is that libertarians suppress speech? Explain why Musk is censoring speech on Twitter. Musk is authoritarian by nature. He always has been. > “Misinformation” is a very subjective word It isn't. It's lies, falsehoods, and untruths. Here are some of the lies Musk has spread: - Lies about Paul Pelosi: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/30/business/musk-tweet-p…

Quoting opinion pieces in rags like the Washington Post (owned by Musk's bitter personal rival Jeff Bezos) is not the way for us to come to a consensus on what is true (or not) about Musk.

Claiming "disinformation is subjective" and then cherry picking something to avoid all of it isn't even a credible attempt. Consensus isn't the objective, forwarding arguments that hold water is. You haven't disputed a mentioned single fact, so I take it you know they're indeed facts.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#942

Post by lern_too_spel »

isaacremuant wrote: post #545
lern_too_spel wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a pet theory. It is illegal for the US to access its citizens' and residents' data without a warrant, and asking somebody else to do it doesn't magically make it legal.

It's not a pet theory when there's proof they have engaged in it through five eyes. We're not saying it respects the constitution or its intent. We're saying it's what happens. Black CIA sites weren't legal either, nor was torture.

> It's not a pet theory when there's proof they have engaged in it through five eyes

What proof? You would think after all the leaks there have been, some proof would exist. Instead, you cling to a conspiracy theory based on a misunderstanding of an agreement.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#943

Post by wuschel »

varispeed wrote: post #368
negus wrote: post #174

Not surprised, considering UK's ridiculous key disclosure law (United Kingdom The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007, requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order.) that makes anyone with high-entropy random data (which is undistinguishable from the crypto-…

It seems like perfect case to make multi-container encryption as default. That is different data will be revealed using different key and there is no way of knowing how many containers there are in the blob of data and not possible to prove someone is hiding a key.

Not if the state can access your super secret containers while you access them with your software. Because state backdoor either in hardware or in OS level

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#944

Post by oigursh »

zfg wrote: post #781
cbeach wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is a libertarian not an authoritarian. His job is to reduce the size and power of government. Authoritarians don’t do that. Libertarians do that. Two opposite ends of the spectrum. “Misinformation” is a very subjective word, so I’m afraid you and I will have to agree to disagree that Musk is spreading misinformation. Don’t believe everything you read about Musk in the mainstream media. Don’t forget that the medi…

> Musk is a libertarian not an authoritarian. What, your claim is that libertarians suppress speech? Explain why Musk is censoring speech on Twitter. Musk is authoritarian by nature. He always has been. > “Misinformation” is a very subjective word It isn't. It's lies, falsehoods, and untruths. Here are some of the lies Musk has spread: - Lies about Paul Pelosi: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/30/business/musk-tweet-p…

Chilling.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#945

Post by talldayo »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #938
talldayo wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, Android handsets are not prevented by Google from selecting an entirely different operating system if they distrust the one installed by the OEM. It is expressly the choice you would make if you expected userland encryption to be mandated broken. It doesn't protect against every attack (eg. Stingray or evil maid) but it absolutely would protect you from a situation like the one in the OP. Breaking your encrypt…

Well, except that Play Integrity will effectively prevent you from using any banking, payment or government ID app using a non-OEM operating system. I am writing this from LineageOS, so I am enduring the major inconvenience myself, but I do not expect the average person to do so.

The average person has made a lot of mistakes concerning their identity and privacy. Their habits will have to fundamentally change if they want to avoid dragnet surveillance.

I frankly don't expect the average Apple user to abandon their ecosystem, sunken costs and all that. But I do expect them to reconsider their unconditional support for a company that fights for the right to surveil them. LineageOS is hard to use, but as someone that already got most my apps off F-Droid it's honestly a cinch.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#946

Post by genewitch »

patrickmay wrote: post #336
gnfargbl wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except perhaps for people living near the border in Northern Ireland, "going to the EU" for warranty work is a completely unfeasible suggestion. It's not exactly a short or cheap journey for most of us!

"Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance. Americans think 100 years is a long time."

It's ~40 miles round trip to go to a grocery store. And that's a crappy store, better ones are an additional 5-10 miles.

In the US.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#947

Post by alt227 »

echelon_musk wrote: post #935
alt227 wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you can just open the archive and check whats in the backup yourself to satisfy that?

If it was that easy I wouldn't have bothered replying. Why don't you check in the backup and get back to me.

Because I dont own anything Apple, nor anything that doesnt give me full control over my stuff.

I assume that instead of educating me on how the backups are in a user unreadable format, you chose to make a snide remark and leave me to guess the truth.

Why would anyone trust a backup they cannot read themselves in an emergency?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#948

Post by ninalanyon »

chgs wrote: post #868
ninalanyon wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there really any political opponents any more? Al the parties that matter are either explicitly in favour of these ideas or at least behave as though they are.

Given Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage are in the same elected chamber, I’d be interested in what you think you mean by “political opponent”

Whatever the person I was replying to means by political opponent. My point was that they are not opponents if they want the same thing or acquiesce to the same thing.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#949

Post by ninalanyon »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #806
negus wrote: post #174

Not surprised, considering UK's ridiculous key disclosure law (United Kingdom The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007, requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order.) that makes anyone with high-entropy random data (which is undistinguishable from the crypto-…

It's incumbent on the prosecution to prove that you know the key they are claiming you are withholding. It is a defence to say you forgot it, or that the data is random. The prosecution would have to prove that you didn't forget it and that the data is not random. In most cases it requires a court order as well.

> It is a defence to say you forgot it,

Do you have a source for that assertion?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#950

Post by rich_sasha »

542354234235 wrote: post #278
rich_sasha wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a situation where a criminal used Whatsapp and decrypting it is needed for the conviction, why should I suffer because of your absolute views on privacy? I hold neither of the extreme views, and frankly I am baffled by anyone in either of them.

In a situation where an accused criminal used Whatsapp and decrypting it is needed to view the content which may or not lead to a conviction. This ridiculous idea that law enforcement knows people are guilty and it is these pesky rights that keep getting in the way is just false. Police regularly and consistently abuse their power to railroad people and take the easiest path to convicting someone . Even in situations…

It's easy to construct a reasonable scenario. You catch a guy doing something bad. You know he's a part of a big organized crime organisation, because you already caught some of the other conspirators. And you could bring the whole thing down based on documents / chats etc which are encrypted.

I'm not saying, based on that, you throw away privacy rules. But to not even acknowledge that there is a conflict is IMO insane.

Reading through this thread, I get the sense that the desire for absolute privacy stems from a perception of the government as basically another mafia - a ruthless, unprincipled organisation that will exploit any weakness in you, just because. Maybe that's the root of the difference. I'm lucky enough to have never lived in such a country. Sure, I care about government accountability, there will always be bad actors, and governments in general aren't always super-competent, but I believe fundamentally, governments in places I have lived are not evil. They aren't another mafia I need a firewall against.

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