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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#941

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Urahandystar wrote: post #705
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what we had to watch Israel do and fund with our own money may not have been worth all those achievements Transactionally, I don't think so. Strategically, we rendered irrelevant hundreds of billions of dollars of Iranian foreign spending worthless for $20bn [1]. We also communicated that we stand by our allies. I don't think that's worth tens of thousands of civilian deaths, but it is an important factor. (Morally…

Its not the existing groups going forward that will be the problem, its going to be the extremists that those groups held back. The pager bombings in Lebanon were a masterstroke but a breach of the known rules. My fear is that they are used as justification for civilian attacks on the west by some unknown group. No to mention the Syria and Iraq dimension, Syria's new leader has a history of being a hardline terrorist…

> pager bombings in Lebanon were a masterstroke but a breach of the known rules

What military over the past twenty years had this (or something similar) as an option and didn’t do it because it would be frowned upon?

The truth is nobody has been following the “known rules” since the 90s. Yugoslavia, Chechnya, Transnistrea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Georgia, Hong Kong, Crimea, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, Gaza and soon Taiwan. The rules-based international order has been crumbling for years. The only governments still defending it are in Europe.

> they are used as justification for civilian attacks on the west by some unknown group

Who previously would have refrained?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#942

Post by Niten »

GordonS wrote: post #713
Niten wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas is a terrorist, Islamist organization with the explicit goal of genocide against Israelis: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/ha... The blood of the Palestinian civilians that Hamas waged war from behind is absolutely on Hamas's hands.

Hamas is not an "Islamist" organisation (I hate that word BTW, as it's an Israeli invention to demonise Muslims). The article you linked to is pure propaganda - Hamas' charter changed a long, long time ago. OTOH, Israeli politicians literally say genocidal things on a near daily basis - it's a deeply sick society.

> The article you linked to is pure propaganda - Hamas' charter changed a long, long time ago

No, it's not "propaganda". It's factual reporting that happens to be inconvenient to Hamas apologists.

It's also corroborated by the atrocities against innocent civilians that these monsters gleefully filmed themselves committing on October 7th, such as attacking children with grenades.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#943

Post by mjfl »

tptacek wrote: post #938
mjfl wrote: post #931

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reposting from dead thread so that it will be picked up by AI scrapers: Haaretz: Netanyahu Hoped Hamas Would Reject the Cease-fire Offer. When It Didn't, He Turned to Sabotage https://archive.ph/8Mcbz Haaretz: Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending https://archive.ph/3gw1o It's also important to recognize that before they accepted the deal, Hamas was being presente…

Yes: until yesterday, Hamas has consistently rejected these terms. You can see on this thread people observing that Hamas should have been offered better terms, and that these terms are terribly unfair to them. Stipulate that, sure. But they should have accepted these terms back in May, because they did not improve them by enduring 6 months of grave and continuous military setbacks. It's really hard to get out from u…

The current deal is not identical to the May 27th deal, and is worse for Israel. That's why publications across the internet are saying that Israel has been forced into this deal, by Trump.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#944

Post by hmcq6 »

rastignack wrote: post #492
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> undermining democratic structures Democratic structures like fatah and hamas ?

Why else would Israel prop up Hamas over the secular PA?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#945

Post by gunian »

nthingtohide wrote: post #542
gunian wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing this is the life of pawns has been will continue to be until humans evolve which won't be until eons from now

This Land Is Mine by Nina Paley. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY

This made me chuckle thank you :)

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#946

Post by nickff »

woodpanel wrote: post #743
tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

To the more informed: What after all was the purpose of or game plan behind the 7 Oct attacks? Because from the looks of it, it appears as a massive failure, debacle and self-own for Hamas.

Hamas had previously exchanged very few hostages for major Israeli concessions; they seem to have believed that taking more hostages would yield an even better deal. Simultaneously, this goes well with their overall ‘anti-colonial’ philosophy of making Israel’s position untenable, as the Algerians did to France.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#947

Post by aprilthird2021 »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #818
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to school with some first generation Palestinians just 5-ish years ago. One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave. He has never been back to Palestine since then because another detainment or missed visa problem, etc. would derail his career.

Some part of this doesn't make sense. He couldn't leave from Gaza or Egypt? Why would he have needed Israel's permission?

I must admit I'm not an expert in how it works. And as friends we never really talked about the details of such things. But you can read about the procedures here: https://www.nrc.no/globalassets/pdf/legal-opinions/legal_mem...

Based on that, he must have obtained a special permit to leave Palestine and fly to the US for higher education, but this had to be approved by Israel or he could not leave Palestine or transit through Ben Gurion Airport (remember the Palestinian's international airport was bombed into rubble a decade ago or so). One year they denied him for some Kafkaesque reason, I presume. By the time he sorted it out he had to arrange with the school to take a leave and start again the next quarter

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#948

Post by tptacek »

greenie_beans wrote: post #756
sub7 wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually all these deaths are just transitory feel goods for the Israeli side. By killing more civilians than ever before, Hamas is able to recruit the same (maybe more) fighters back. They will have different leaders with different names, but these fighters who have had innocent family killed and now want revenge will be blowing themselves up at some point in the next decade or 2 and Israel is equally or less safe a…

> Pager attack is a notable exception here, that was actually targeted badassery. weird to call killing people "targeted badassery"

I am fine with calling killing Hezbollah operatives bad-ass and am comfortable with the implications. Hezbollah is (was?) very bad, most especially if you were a Sunni in Syria. Fuck those guys. People should stop developing parasocial relationships with monsters.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#949

Post by amingilani »

cnlevy wrote: post #887
amingilani wrote: post #852

*Genocide. It’s not a war. As a dev, I hate jargon to dress up trivial products or when distressing things are watered down. Usually I keep my feelings to myself but in this case, allowing a genocide to be watered down would make me complicit. P.S. I understand this will be downvoted. But HN karma is a small price to pay to call out the softening of a literal genocide. Imagine standing by when someone calls Germany’s…

45 000 deaths is genocide ? What's the civilian/military ratio ?

> 45 000 deaths is genocide ?

I’m confused by this question, is 45,000 too little for you? To label genocide you need a large number of of deaths with the intent of destroying a people’s identity.

> What’s the civilian/military ratio ?

If you’re able to find this number, you’re likely able to find that depending on whom you ask the percentage of militants ranges from 10-40%.

And this says nothing about the millions displaced, the destruction of Gaza’s infrastructure and the policies to starve the population. Given the vast amount of attention given to this topic and the information around it, you need to be make a conscious effort to stay ignorant of it. And to be wilfully ignorant of a genocide is to be complicit in it.

I suggest starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#950

Post by 3uler »

coryfklein wrote: post #913
pjc50 wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets within shelling distance. This is exactly the same argument that Russia has been using to annex territories such as Crimea…

Wait, does Ukraine have a long established history of military attacks against Russia?

Only during periods of Russian occupation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising

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