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Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

reuters.com

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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#941

Post by jhanschoo »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #931
rtsil wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the same Federal government called the attack against USS Cole "terrorism" and its perpetrators "terrorists", and implemented a range of "anti-terrorism" measures in the Navy after that. And it was a military target, and all the victims were military. So really, terrorism is what people say is terrorism.

I think the more relevant part in that particular case is "subnational groups". The USS Cole attack was obviously not an act of war by Yemen against the US, so it needed to be investigated as a terrorist attack instead. > The extensive FBI investigation ultimately determined that members of the al Qaeda terrorist network planned and carried out the bombing. [...] > By the end of 2000, Yemeni authorities had arrested…

So from what I gather, we are observing either by accident or design a lack of a properly neutral term to designate non-state actors acting against a state's military. Because there is no shortage of material US support for such actors in recent history (I pointed out in another comment the Kurdish resistance in Syria), yet Anglophone media rarely consider US a state sponsor of terrorists.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#942

Post by namaria »

numpad0 wrote: post #486
stetrain wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of terrorism is controversial and political, so there isn't a hard answer. But I think a general distinction is the targeting of combatants vs civilians. There is a difference between infiltrating military or para-military organizations or operations and intentionally targeting mass casualties of civilians for attention.

The entire US is going to freak out if a platoon of KGB soldiers flew into US and killed hundreds of bad guys. How objectively bad the "victims" might have been isn't going to matter. You can't just walk across a recognized international border and do the "right" thing without a consent, regardless of how right or wrong it had been. That's an act of war, technically.

National freak out levels quantification problems notwithstanding,

If a platoon of American CIA agents went around the US executing 'bad people' (definition problems notwithstanding),

That would be bad.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#943

Post by s1artibartfast »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #815
tptacek wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allegedly hidden well enough that a casual X-ray of the pager wouldn't have revealed it.

how the hell is anyone going to be able to fly anymore?

the idea TSA security has always been a farce, detecting only the crudest methods of attack.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#944

Post by kjkjadksj »

mrtksn wrote: post #90

Ha, maybe this will be the turning point for international corporations becoming national-only? Or maybe make the big brands like Apple/Samsung the only trusted device manufacturers and completely wipe out the small ones? No iPhones exploded so far but I wouldn't be surprised if the paranoia takes over everywhere and local supply chains and local producers become a thing. "Foreign social media platforms" was already…

Nothing new even happened. Agencies like CIA and NSA are able to intercept equipment and replace with bugged equipment with no change to ship time to you already. Most military or intelligence services are aware of this possibility and take steps to ensure their hardware is not compromised. I guess hezzbolah was obviously not, likewise with the internet community also surprised by this.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#945

Post by nobodyandproud »

edanm wrote: post #543
113 wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> legitimate military targets during a time of war Israel and Lebanon are not at war.

But Israel and Hezbollah are at war, and these are (reportedly) devices used by Hezbollah operatives. A war Hezbollah declared, btw.

Yes, but these are more akin to bombings and not surgical strikes.

We’ll know more in the coming days on the impact, but I too feel uncomfortable even as someone who’s mostly supportive of Israel.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#946

Post by kjkjadksj »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #563

There’s a “live by the sword, die by the sword” reaction that I have to this. I think we expect better of democracies, which is why these kinds of attacks shock us. But it is interesting that we are unsurprised when Lebanon/Hezbollah uses terror tactics but it quickly becomes a news event when Israel responds in kind. Ironic because drone bombings like we did in Afghanistan would probably have a much more terrible co…

When the US wants to guide a remote bomb into a hut in a village, estimations of the potential collateral damage are at least made and considered. This is the issue that the military community has with this attack. It was sloppy basically and none of this sort of assessment was made.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#947

Post by kjkjadksj »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #394
rdtsc wrote: post #144

The only way we'd find out how they did it is if some pagers didn't explode and at least one would get into the hands of someone willing to do a public tear-down. In this video, we'll be cutting the explosive battery. Hit the like and subscribe buttons, and let us know what kind of explosive you think this is in the comments. Also, don't try this at home kids, we're what you'd call "professionals".

If it was a US intelligence agency, we could just wait 20-50 years and ask politely and they'd probably tell us how. Say what you will about US intelligence agencies (and there's a LOT to say), but I always did kind of like that feature.

Except sometimes the document they give you is three words unredacted

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#948

Post by kjkjadksj »

datameta wrote: post #700
deepsun wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the political will. Russia doesn't care, they never investigate nor prosecute their military for war crimes. Ukraine does.

My implication is that Israel is using tactics falling under the same umbrella as those used by terrorist organizations.

A targeted attack focusing on users of a combatants equipment? What terrorist has ever operated with such a fine tooth comb? Its quite a far cry from the usual mid east terrorist playbook of a child with a bomb vest walking into the market.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#949

Post by edanm »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #945
edanm wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Israel and Hezbollah are at war, and these are (reportedly) devices used by Hezbollah operatives. A war Hezbollah declared, btw.

Yes, but these are more akin to bombings and not surgical strikes. We’ll know more in the coming days on the impact, but I too feel uncomfortable even as someone who’s mostly supportive of Israel.

> Yes, but these are more akin to bombings and not surgical strikes.

Not sure why you think that? If reports are true, these were relatively small bombings that only impacted people carrying a pager that was specifically handed out to Hezbollah members, and presumably only military members. There was collateral damage, but far less than there would be by even the most surgical of surgical strikes (which usually refers to sending in highly targeted missiles to take out, say, only a single apartment).

Of course we might learn that that isn't accurate, but that's the story as I currently understand it.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#950

Post by edanm »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #660
edanm wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Israel and Hezbollah are at war, and these are (reportedly) devices used by Hezbollah operatives. A war Hezbollah declared, btw.

And I guess like in Gaza, civilians are de facto complicit. Plus they are Arabs and not Jewish so can we really apply human rights to them? Are they even actually humans? I guess it’s not genocide when it’s done to animals. /s

Of course civilians aren't complicit, neither in Lebanon nor in Gaza. (Nor in Israel, for that matter, though few people seem to complain when Hezbollah targets civilians explicitly every single day.)

I never said otherwise, not sure why you think I did?

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