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The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

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Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#941

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

It's odd to me that the wrong take has risen to the top of the comments, but not surprising. HN isn't what it used to be, demonstrated by how long threads dominate the front page while the actual answers fall below the fold. Regulation isn't the problem, or even part of the problem. Wealth inequality is. Which is counterbalanced by progressive taxation. But none of you want the rich to pay taxes, so here we are. Quit…

Not the person who posted the comment you're responding to, but I'm trying to make sense of what you're saying

> Regulation isn't the problem, or even part of the problem. Wealth inequality is. Which is counterbalanced by progressive taxation.

> But none of you want the rich to pay taxes, so here we are

Where did the above poster say that wealth inequality wasn't part of the problem. Restrictive regulation is likely a cause of the consolidation of wealth (scarce, essential assets tend to go up in value, and when the supply is restricted and demand unbounded, even more so). If access to drinkable water was privatized and regulatory bottlenecks restricted new entrants from producing and distributing it, you can imagine how that would lead to more dramatic wealth inequality also (and poor people dying of dehydration).

GP said:

> > I think we have a situation where part of the population is literally voting to appropriate wealth from another part of the population.

Housing is one of the tools (and by no means the only one) that the plutocrats are using to widen the wealth gap.

> But none of you want the rich to pay taxes, so here we are

I don't know why you're assuming this, but I agree with GP and, of course, also want the rich to pay more taxes. Based on everything they've said, I can't imagine they feel differently.

> Maybe they can just take this year off instead, by taking this month's income and camping indefinitely, pulling the plug on the rat race and just living. Eventually forming small communal city states that provide for their citizens while the business world consumes itself since it doesn't produce anything like workers do.

> > At the same time, those people who do not own a house are wising up to the scheme and so they increasingly refuse to work or provide value to society. Instead, they resort to their own financial schemes, illegal activity, freeloading government benefits; they've checked out from the system.

Sounds almost like the two of you are saying the same thing here, though GP is using words which lean more negative in connotation

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#942

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable housing is defined by the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) as housing that does not require a household to spend more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs. For rental housing, these costs include monthly rent and utility payments; for owner-occupied housing, these costs include mortgage payments and additional expenses associated with homeownership. A household…

> Affordable housing is defined by the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) as housing that does not require a household to spend more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs. This is fantastic, and I do think this definition is meaningful, but what legally binds this definition to what politicians and interest groups discuss? Without a legal binding the term "affordable housing"…

Every year, HUD establishes the ceilings for rental payments, plus utility allowances. Let's say that the ceiling in Houston is $1,800 for a 1BR apartment. That means that landlords who charge $1,800 or less to rent such a unit, are the only ones eligible to participate in the HCV (Section 8) program.

Therefore, people will colloquially refer to HCV-participant communities as "Affordable Housing" because if a landlord charges $1801.00, they're not eligible to receive HUD payments and HCV holders literally can't afford to live there.

Therefore, the landlords are presented with a bright-line; either they're in this public housing "project" or they're not.

Speaking of Projects, the "old way" was for HUD to build the buildings and HUD more-or-less directly managed the Project Housing, and the way it's gone with commercial landlords is a relatively new development, if you will.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#943
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

What government policy would allow for a 2k apartment building and not a $500 apartment building? I just don't buy this argument. The reason there's not a $500 apartments being built is because by expanding the residence out just a tiny bit you can charge $2000 for the same space that 2 $500 apartments would occupy. I'm seeing this play out where I live that has practically no zoning laws or regulations (LOTS of buil…

You can rent an apartment in Tokyo on a min wage salary.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/opinion/editorials/tokyo-...

https://resources.realestate.co.jp/rent/tokyo-budget-apartme...

Whats their secret? Sane zoning laws created at the federal level that separate industrial use from residential, but don't segregate humans based on race or class.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#944

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What government policy would allow for a 2k apartment building and not a $500 apartment building? I just don't buy this argument. The reason there's not a $500 apartments being built is because by expanding the residence out just a tiny bit you can charge $2000 for the same space that 2 $500 apartments would occupy. I'm seeing this play out where I live that has practically no zoning laws or regulations (LOTS of buil…

We know it’s from zoning laws because a few places don’t have this problem > “We have kept our rent increases to about 1% whereas the rest of the country was looking at 31%,” Mayor Jacob Frey said on Monday, citing data from The Pew Charitable Trusts. > “That’s a drastic difference. And in part, it’s due to the policies that we’ve passed.” > It’s mostly simple supply and demand, according to Mayor Frey. An explosion…

FTA:

> In his budget address last week, the Mayor recommended $18 million in the city’s budget for 2024 go into new affordable housing and another $5 million in ongoing funding for building and maintaining going forward.

> Statewide, the legislature invested more than a billion dollars to the cause. Exactly how far that’ll all go remains to be seen.

This is not due to a change to zoning laws — the construction is dependent on substantial public funding. As you’ve demonstrated it is “bigger government” that is the solution to this problem.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#945

I was holding out on joining the wave of doomerism that pervades everyone's mindset so thoroughly nowadays, but I'm starting to be won over. Between economic things like this and the apparent infeasibility of carbon capture (meaning a likely 3+ degree C increase in global temperature (and the resulting catastrophic effects that not even activists talk about because the scenario is too bleak to imagine)), I am startin…

reality isn't doomerism, really just is.... reality. Those who call it doomerism live near a river called denial, apparently it's a pretty popular place these days. They either don't want to think about it, or they think a man is going to descend from the heavens and save them, I wouldn't count on that happening. There's room for hope we can science our way out or at least ai might be able to find solutions we can't…

> Those who call it doomerism live near a river called denial, apparently it's a pretty popular place these days.

Well down by denial river, anyone who wants housing bad enough has access to it. The working class isn't being bled dry. There are no socioeconomic problems, and you have your house and comfortable life because you worked for it, just like everyone else is able to.

No wonder it's such a popular place to live.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#946
post #670
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is counterfactual in the literal sense. It is entirely possible that there are no real prices below $2k in urban centers because of demand and constrained supply. It is entirely possible that getting below this would result in a return to conditions where people were regularly dying in fires and building collapse. We have plenty of examples of what happens in your fantasy land, you just choose to reason from ideol…

Maybe we keep the fire codes but eliminate parking minimums and lot setbacks. Just a thought.

Many cities have reduced or done away with the parking minimums. It ends up being another way of extracting value out of the existing market, but does little to reduce the median price of new homes.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#947

I'm a Gen-Xer, so I'm kinda Switzerland here, but I have to admit this is not without some comedy value: 2015: Millennials: The rent is too damn high! Boomers: Stop whining, you entitled babies! I bought my first house when I was still in high school! You just need to work! 2023: Boomers: The rent is too damn high! Millennials (and Gen-Zers?): Ok, boomer. Just stay away from TikTok.

Wealth inequality existed even when the boomers were coming of age, even if it wasn't as bad as it is right now.

Among the boomers, there are surely a sizeable percentage who were never able to accumulate 'wealth', possibly through no fault of their own.

Perhaps they chose the wrong investments, because pretty much every able-bodied, mentally sound boomer with no other extenuating circumstances could have bought a house even at working class wages.

Perhaps they had a mentally ill relative they made sacrifices to support.

Perhaps they suffered a workplace injury early in their career.

Perhaps they retired comfortably but fell victim to a phone scam, and didn't properly budget for a devastating financial loss in addition to crippling inflation.

Now that group is being thrown out the streets, very likely by the boomers who had better fortune.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#948
post #936

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won’t ever be so black and white. Certainly some cultures place less emphasis on the future, but western culture definitely revolves around long term goals of building a family/retiring, etc… I think a lot of people are choosing not to have kids mainly for 2 reasons: it is getting extremely expensive to raise a child, and the uncertainty of the next 20-40 years makes people hesitant to put their kids into that env…

Except personal preferences are mostly irrelevant from the momentum of society. Because of acting that way, an immediate disadvantage in America results. The Kardashians, Swift, Santos, Thomas (also every other Supreme Court Justice [1]), Kalanick, SBF, Trump, Bezos' yacht, Musk's Twitter strobe [2], Epstein [3], Harvard making more than the NSF while taking NSF money [4] (+corrupt professors and lawsuits for bonus p…

Idk what you going on about to be honest. I was talking about society in general, not the 1%. You're also just letting survivorship bias take over. Just because the cherry picked examples you picked out got to the top doesn't mean there aren't 100000 people behind them that failed extravagantly.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#949

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason for this massive wealth distribution is the inflationary monetary system Inflation serves to reduce wealth (if just stuffed under the mattress), and encourages investment (to beat inflation). The real problem is that wealth begets wealth - if left to it's own devices the capitalist system will ensure wealth becomes concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. The only way this can be counter-balanced is with g…

> capitalist system will ensure wealth becomes concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. The only way this can be counter-balanced is with government regulation I'd argue government is just the same. If you look at who holds office right now, it's predominantly the older generation [0]. They achieved that by becoming career politicians. Deng Xiaoping introduced capitalism which lifted generations of people out of povert…

  > crony capitalism
how to get rid of crony cpitalism?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#950
post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portland isn’t perfect but it’s doing a bit better than many places with the elimination of parking minimums and the relative ease of building ADUs.

I do love Portland, but I think within the city we're too uncritical of what goes on here; maybe it's a counter-reaction to sensational national coverage but, imo, equally unhelpful. Dense housing development is being pushed to Eastside ( https://projects.oregonlive.com/maps/density/ ) which has caused the city to remove trees to expand roads because they built it on roads that weren't ready for it, East sides tree d…

Yeah that’s fair, I’m really looking forward to some positive changes from the new ranked choice voting but it’s going to take time for stuff to get better.
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