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I wish GPT4 had never happened

chaudhry.notion.site

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#941

Post by blibble »

Herval_freire wrote: post #729
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

What do you mean by fairly distributed? If all my machines are better than you intellectually and all my machines are stronger and faster than you physically... Then it is completely fair for me to not give you any wealth because the machines out perform you. People fear AI because the fair outcome is in fact detrimental for a good portion of humanity. That is the paradoxical irony. In theory to save people you must…

> Then it is completely fair for me to not give you any wealth because the machines out perform you.

unless you're going to start your own nation state you are still subject to the whims of the electorate

and they are not going to like this, one bit

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#942

Post by mrlatinos »

netbioserror wrote: post #86
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

The market doesn't owe your hobby any value. You know how few people get to enjoy the job that pays their bills? You live in a privileged bubble.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#943

Post by Herval_freire »

blibble wrote: post #941
Herval_freire wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by fairly distributed? If all my machines are better than you intellectually and all my machines are stronger and faster than you physically... Then it is completely fair for me to not give you any wealth because the machines out perform you. People fear AI because the fair outcome is in fact detrimental for a good portion of humanity. That is the paradoxical irony. In theory to save people you must…

> Then it is completely fair for me to not give you any wealth because the machines out perform you. unless you're going to start your own nation state you are still subject to the whims of the electorate and they are not going to like this, one bit

What do you mean..? the status quo is like this already. People choose the most competitive product so if a machine is the better performer then payment is made towards purchasing and maintaining a machine instead of paying a worker.

The current electorate 100 percent supports this and considers this fair. You actually have to create a new nation state if you don't want this.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#944

Post by 10xDev »

namarie wrote: post #722
10xDev wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During lockdowns the rate of depression and all sorts of mental and physical issues went up. Becoming unemployed may not be the exact same thing as a lockdown but less incentive to get up at a reasonable time or to leave the house would still lead to more overweight, lazy and depressed people.

Becoming unemployed may not be the exact same thing as a lockdown during a pandemic ? Don't you think people dying in the hundreds of thousands due to disease has more to do with rise in depression than anything else?

Countless people die every day to all kinds of horrible diseases and most people were not even affected. Guess what there is even a war going on, tuberculosis, cancer and still covid.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#945

Post by jacquesm »

surgical_fire wrote: post #156

Funny thing - I've been using ChatGPT as a programming assistant. My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. It often generates code that won't compile or won't run correctly, but that sort of goes in the correct direction, enough that I can spot the blunders and refine my questions. Quite often I even learn a few new things when using it to explore libraries and f…

In that sense it is not different than any other powertool. A handheld circular saw in the hands of a good craftsman is a serious time saver and will help the make more accurate work. In the hands of an beginner it will lead to bloodshed. In the hands of an amateur it will produce faster work but probably not as accurate.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#946

Post by jacquesm »

ericbarrett wrote: post #617
surgical_fire wrote: post #156

Funny thing - I've been using ChatGPT as a programming assistant. My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. It often generates code that won't compile or won't run correctly, but that sort of goes in the correct direction, enough that I can spot the blunders and refine my questions. Quite often I even learn a few new things when using it to explore libraries and f…

AI is a ratchet. It doesn't die, or retire, or change careers. Once it's good at something, it stays good. Once it gets better at something, it stays better. (If not, the model is disposed of without pity or remorse.) Right now, it may make you better at your job. But your very use of it is training it to do your job. It seems to me that if AI is currently helpful to you, it is likely to eventually replace you. And m…

That's a great comment thank you.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#947

Post by jacquesm »

visarga wrote: post #631
ericbarrett wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a ratchet. It doesn't die, or retire, or change careers. Once it's good at something, it stays good. Once it gets better at something, it stays better. (If not, the model is disposed of without pity or remorse.) Right now, it may make you better at your job. But your very use of it is training it to do your job. It seems to me that if AI is currently helpful to you, it is likely to eventually replace you. And m…

Every 10 years the software paradigms change so much that you practically have to start over. Some skills carry over, but many don't. LLMs will do the same thing - they will force us to change our approaches.

That 10 years is not a constant, it used to be 30 years then it was 20 and now it seems to be 10 or it may already be less than 10.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#948

Post by dns_snek »

Herval_freire wrote: post #938
dns_snek wrote: post #920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In theory to save people you must function as a welfare state with things like ubi. You must deliberately distribute income unfairly. This is only true for perverted definition of the word "fair" which allows owners/investors to perpetually capture 99.9% of the value produced by people who research, develop, build, and operate "your" machines. When this is your ground truth, I can see how you would perceive a truly…

Right so if I'm a janitor and I use chemicals to clean things which is the result of hundreds of years of human ingenuity and chemical engineering I suddenly owe humanity money? No. That is the perverted idea. I'm simply talking about fair as in fair trade. As in what is defined as a fair trade and a fair transaction according to economic theory and common sense. I am using the absolute most normal and most common se…

In the eyes of capitalism, it's certainly legal and to a certain degree, expected that profits accumulate at the top, but I don't believe the majority of the population ever thought of it as a "fair" arrangement.

What I'm trying to say is that your framing of the issue in terms of "fairness" isn't very productive. It may be your opinion that any given arrangement is fair, but the concept of "fairness" is really just a social construct. If your fellow citizens disagree, they are ultimately the ones who will rally to change the system. At first electorally, and failing that, through violence.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#949

Post by jacquesm »

rg111 wrote: post #446
crop_rotation wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for penning down your emotional response. HN is mostly in denial of anything ChatGPT (most people haven't used GPT4 and keep pasting results of GPT3.5). The thing is that there is nothing other than denial that people can express. Saying that their jobs will become much less relevant is just too hard for almost anyone to swallow. People in this thread keep talking about productivity improvements, not realis…

It's so refreshing to see someone recognizing the mass-spread denial of HN commentariat on GPT4. What HN commentariat doesn't realize is that many of them will be made redundant. And "many new jobs are created" is such a bloated, empty statement in the wake of GPT4 like techs. We all know that all technological improvements in recent decades have led to more inequality . No questions about that. LLMs, AI will lead mo…

The interesting bit is that tech people are used to displacing other people's jobs and then telling them to suck it up so it's no wonder that they're in denial: this is the first time that it is their jobs that are at stake and they seem to be about as agile as a deer frozen in the headlights of an oncoming truck. We'll see how it all plays out. Jokes along the line of 'better behave or I'll replace you with a script' are not nearly as funny as they once seemed to be.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#950

Post by blibble »

Herval_freire wrote: post #943
blibble wrote: post #941

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then it is completely fair for me to not give you any wealth because the machines out perform you. unless you're going to start your own nation state you are still subject to the whims of the electorate and they are not going to like this, one bit

What do you mean..? the status quo is like this already. People choose the most competitive product so if a machine is the better performer then payment is made towards purchasing and maintaining a machine instead of paying a worker. The current electorate 100 percent supports this and considers this fair. You actually have to create a new nation state if you don't want this.

> People choose the most competitive product so if a machine is the better performer then payment is made towards purchasing and maintaining a machine instead of paying a worker.

how do you explain the significant market for hand made products?

regardless, this wasn't my point

my point was the electorate aren't going to support e.g. Microsoft replacing every single worker in the US with a piece of code

regardless of Microsoft's opinion as to what it thinks is fair

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