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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#941

Post by concordDance »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #599
concordDance wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people have the same political view about LGBTQI+ anyway Even in the anglosphere this isn't true. Those with differing views mostly keep silent. But get them in private or anonymously (e.g. a fellow train passenger) and a wide variety of views emerge.

> But get them in private or anonymously (e.g. a fellow train passenger) and a wide variety of views emerge. A truly stunning diversity of views and opinions… but pretty much all of them agree with the idea that everyone should be entitled to basic decency. Most of the differences I've observed are attributable to differences in personal experience (e.g. subject-matter knowledge, perception of the consensus of others…

> rather than anything that'd get you kicked out of a fur con

I guess I have a distorted view of what would get you kicked out.

I would have thought that things like saying that "people should be free to use the pronouns they feel apply to the person they are talking about, they shouldnt be forced to lie", "most kids who think they are trans, aren't and will grow out of it" and "transwomen should not be allowed to compete in women's sports or be in women's shelters or prisons, even if they're on hormones" would get you kicked out. And all three are very common, particularly amongst older people but also often with the early 20s crowd.

Let alone views on things like consent (e.g. "being very drunk does not mean sex is rape" or the jaw dropping "if you keep teasing a man you shouldn't be surprised if he decides to take matters into his own hands" said by a women in her 90s) or race ("there could be/probably are intelligence differences between races" are fairly common, as is "be careful around the [insert ethnic group here]s around here, they're dangerous/thieves") or abortion (everything from "life begins at conception" to "infanticide should be legal", in the UK!).

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#942

Post by GoblinSlayer »

bglazer wrote: post #862
mshake2 wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>queerness is very much still edgy and not particularly accepted by the dominant/mainstream culture Being supported by advertising, movies, tv shows, signaled by major corporations and workplaces, and supported top-down by the government means its edgy and counterculture? We live in completely different realities I guess.

Being LGBTQ is one of the few identities or choices that will result in being disowned by a significant portion of American families. That attitude is edging out of the mainstream but it’s practically dogma among evangelicals and other socially conservative groups. So yes, those people do live in a different reality, where Biden admin policy and “Will and Grace” don’t matter at all.

Carriers of mainstream culture are called normies, not evangelicals.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#943

Post by lm28469 »

Taywee wrote: post #585
ipaddr wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you grew up and are beyond the childness. Don't take that experience away from others.

It's not childish anymore. It's just angry and cynical. It looks less like the shit-talking edgy teenagers having fun being idiots like it was in 2007, and more like unhinged, hateful, contrarian paranoid schizophrenia. I wish the people on 4chan had the stupid childish fun that I did 15 years ago.

You probably changed more than 4chan changed in the last 15 years

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#944

Post by DoItToMe81 »

It's increasingly the case. Web countercultures died in the 2010s, and what has replaced them is rather fringes within or coveting the mainstream. Streaming has broken the backs of a lot of music counterculture and overrun it with scene tourists who don't really participate in the culture.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#945

Post by pxtail »

justnotworthit wrote: post #935
tonymet wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to give more attention to the collapse in ad-hoc labor. We've made life far too regimented and regulated for many people. I don't think we give enough attention to this gap in the economy.

I always found it funny that people in the informal economy (including hippies selling bracelets) aren't the biggest free market supporters.

It's always like this - plenty of people who experienced raw version of the Internet as kids/teenagers/young adults with all the unfiltered content are now the ones installing various filters, gates, laws intended to exert control - but it's for the children, eh? Bullshit

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#946

Post by harimau777 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #240
harimau777 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that activists are content. Rather I think it's that a combination of people returning to work, the end of Covid financial support, and high inflation means that people can't protest anymore. There's probably also a lot of fatigue after protests were going on for months. I'd also contest whether activists really got much of what they were asking for. They generally weren't asking for simply no-poli…

People protested for half a decade before COVID. Even if they couldn’t get out and protest, they could still engage in social media, and yet it seemed like their enthusiasm for the subject largely evaporated, even on social media. Even the cheapest of symbolic stuff like “#BLM” in Twitter handles and bios seemed to largely disappear. It very much feels like they cut policing in the name of black Americans and then lo…

That wasn't my experience. From the start I heard people saying that "defund the police" was a poor slogan because it didn't convey to most people what activists actually meant.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#947

Post by dsfyu404ed »

germinalphrase wrote: post #796
notch898a wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO having a kid is the cutoff between old young and young old. Have a kid and the walls move in fast. Used to live in alternative shelters, backpacking in the outdoors for months on end? Yeah child services says that's substandard housing and abuse. Hell there were child abuse investigation just for a family backpacking the Appalachian trail, and that's a boring ass well planned thing that even old square fuckers ca…

I don’t disagree with the general spirit of what you’re saying, but as a former teacher the observations that fall under Mandatory Reporting are fairly specific. Additionally, I know more than one CPS worker on a personal basis and the types of things that get a child removed from the house are religious and severe . Nothing that you have said would cause me to call in a report unless your kid showed up to class with…

Literally everything he listed can cause him a big, expensive, stressful hassle if some jerk decides to run with it at their discretion.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#948

Post by ianai »

ArnoVW wrote: post #169
ianai wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

google: coun·ter·cul·ture /ˈkoun(t)ərˌkəlCHər/ Learn to pronounce noun noun: counterculture; plural noun: countercultures; noun: counter-culture; plural noun: counter-cultures a way of life and set of attitudes opposed to or at variance with the prevailing social norm. "the idealists of the 60s counterculture"

Being not native, I googled before I posted. In the first page I saw some phrases that seemed to confirm for me. For example, Wikipedia, citing a book from 1991: Counterculture may or may not be explicitly political. It typically involves criticism or rejection of currently powerful institutions, with accompanying hope for a better life or a new society. But if I'm completely besides the mark, apologies

One big difference between the US and other countries: The US doesn’t look at counterculture as a fundamental threat or challenge to the government. The US citizens actually have freedom. The constitution went so far as to identify the sovereignty of the country with its citizens - thus no royalty.

This might sound quaint to some critical ears of the US, but that is the basis of the law and US systems. The US citizens only need to be reminded of this fact and decide whether they want to reinforce that fact with their personal choices - nonviolent protest, voting, etc.

Edit-That might not seem related to the definition of counterculture, but it absolutely is. The US has a culture of multiculturalism. It has the Amish and lets them largely have their culture within the larger culture. There are many such examples with gradients all over and within the US. Sure, sometimes some of those subcultures get political and exert themselves. But they do it within the peaceful political system as a strong trend.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#949

Post by ttyprintk »

koprulusector wrote: post #560
narrator wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you know 4chan is the counterculture is every time someone releases a new generative art tool, 4chan figures out a way to do stuff with it that makes the creators have to restrict and/or shut it down. Like in the 1960s how the mainstream culture would whisper under their breath and point in shock and horror at hippies and try to get them banned from various public venues, and send mobs to beat them up, we hav…

The hippies were shit on during the sixties because of politics and the Vietnam war. The hippies were a big part of the anti war movement. The simplest and quickest way to shutting the movement down was to criminalize its constituents, like hippies, or civil rights activists, through tactics like draconian drug laws and a drug war. The hippies were rooted in things that were objectively good: peace, love, self discov…

First comment on the article:

“ At 75 I am in the baby boom and I was in the counter culture. Lets just say from 1965 to 1985. The counter culture was driven by the Vietnam war. Reciprocal to the war was the peace witness inspired by the Quakers. During this same period, instances of cheap real estate and low cost apartments and free places to live existed. Also developing the skills needed for living a counter culture life were helped along by, unemployment insurance. Unemployment irregularly functioned as a cost of living help when I went back to junior college to study film and sewing.”

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#950

Post by ttyprintk »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #879
tonymet wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to give more attention to the collapse in ad-hoc labor. We've made life far too regimented and regulated for many people. I don't think we give enough attention to this gap in the economy.

What's the difference between ad hoc labour and the gig economy ?

Labor is an individual characteristic which happens to increase in skill. A person good at building cabins can have a nice cabin.

The gig economy is a set of relationships between the state of problems and pay. It pressures workers with the fewest skills to successively solve the same problem.

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