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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#941

Post by amrocha »

rubatuga wrote: post #893
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #877

Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada. While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gon…

I’m Canadian, I work in healthcare. Around half the healthcare workers I’ve talked to want an end to mandates and passports. At this point, the vaccine mandates are ethically speaking, on thin ice as well. Autonomy and freedom from coercion is fundamental to informed consent.

I'm Canadian, I work in IT. Literally the only people who want to end the vaccine passport program are idiot boomers with brain poisoning. Most people are PISSED with anti vaxxers. Stop pretending you have the popular position because you don't.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#942

Post by sleepingadmin »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #592
sleepingadmin wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That article is from last year and it just says black canadians are right to be wary because healthcare is racist. It doesn't say most truckers or occupiers are black (or indian?). The truckers are overwhelming white men. I'm in Ottawa. I was at the protest yesterday that stopped a convoy of trucks, all driven by white men. The people who I see driving around with giant flags, yelling at pedestrians are all white men…

>That article is from last year and it just says black canadians are right to be wary because healthcare is racist. It doesn't say most truckers or occupiers are black (or indian?).

I was providing a link in corroboration as to why there is a disproportionate amount of not-white people protesting. While some media are covering how this is not white supremacy as claimed by the CBC... https://notthebee.com/article/come-and-laugh-with-me-at-the-...

The point is missed.

>The truckers are overwhelming white men.

So the reason why the convoy exists is antivaxxers. The way averages work, if Black canadians are at 50% vaccinated 'because reasons' and our average is 85%. This means white people are even more vaccinated and not concerned with the change.

>'m in Ottawa. I was at the protest yesterday that stopped a convoy of trucks, all driven by white men.

So you're a counter protester? I support your efforts so long as you also remain peaceful.

>The people who I see driving around with giant flags, yelling at pedestrians are all white men. The people at the LCBO fighting security without masks on - white men. People at the grocery store harassing actual essential workers - white men.

Here's the thing. The narrative that the truckers are a racists, sexist, etc fell apart. You can watch several eloquent Indian truckers explain in depth about how this is not about race.

There is a very relevant video from the notthebee page above: https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1487513119119261696

A counter protester with a sign saying 'white nationalist agenda' is confronted with reality.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#943

Post by rmbyrro »

monkeydreams wrote: post #899
rmbyrro wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth looking for a common ground that accommodates free speech and sleeping? My personal opinion: your threshold to kill free speech is way, WAY too low.

You think that the onus is on the sleepers rather than the protestors? Why should the sleepers have to put up with endless noise (along with the damage that sleeplessness brings) just so another person can exercise their right to free speech?

I just don't think we have to take away their right of free speech in order to protect other people's rights to peace in their homes.

It doesn't have to be either one or the other. A more conciliatory approach by the Canadian government would pay off better. My personal opinion, only. I might be wrong, who knows?...

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#944

Post by sleepingadmin »

amrangaye wrote: post #854
sleepingadmin wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>> Trudeau aka mr blackface put black truckers out of a job, then when they organized to protest, he called them racists. Now they are really digging in exercising their charter right to peaceful protesting and Trudeau is going to remove them using this. Wow - that’s quite a summary of what’s going on right now. I keep seeing the same pattern of your comment on right wing media lately (e.g. with the insurrectionists)…

>Wow - that’s quite a summary of what’s going on right now. I keep seeing the same pattern of your comment on right wing media lately (e.g. with the insurrectionists): defend the racist group by blaming either a false flag

You can watch the livestreams for yourself. You can watch videos like: https://twitter.com/QTRBlackGarrett/status/14876208353639833...

There is absolutely no nazi flags or confederate flags. The media and Trudeau smeared these people. This is literally the definition of 'false flag'

>call the protesters “largely peaceful and just exercising their rights”,

This has been confirmed by Ottawa police chief. This is infact a logical conclusion because if the protesters were anything but peaceful they would be arrested by the police. The Ottawa police are unable to do anything because it's peaceful and protected by charter right.

>then turning the charge around to call the people accusing you, of being the actual racists. I find it fascinating to see this on hn - it’s usually the kind of comment I would find in the Breitbart / Fox News comment sections.

Did I call someone racist? I did not. Not once did I say Trudeau is a racist. You are the one who just connected that. Is that by chance because you believe Trudeau is a racist? Interesting.

Also I don't know anything about the final part of your comment. I'm Canadian and not interested in Breitbart / Fox News.

https://twitter.com/cancivlib/status/1493383581783236611

I remember a time many years ago when Trudeau would have open mic town halls and any manner of people would come after him. He would stand his ground and talk to anyone. Including terrorists, I even remember the terrorist kind of rushed toward him and he had to tell them to back off. In the end he literally spoke with that terrorist as a person. What happened to that Trudeau?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#945

Post by tekstar »

dade_ wrote: post #703
tekstar wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a fan of Trudeau, but I do live in Ottawa. These are not peaceful protests. It's an occupation backed by our extreme right wing and significantly funded by people in other countries (cough). It's been terrorizing local residents night and day. Too loud to sleep, get harassed if you leave your house, and in one case the occupiers attempted to light an apartment building on fire and trap the residents inside.…

Do earplugs work? I ask because the truckers arrived in Toronto and I worried about 24 hour noise, but then the TPS did their job, and I never needed to find out. As an aside, I actually had a lot of respect for Sloly when he was in TO, so I am completely baffled why he didn’t keep this under control. Any ideas why this went so badly in Ottawa?

I live far enough away to not be directly impacted by the horns, but from what I understand the best is active noise cancelling headphones, but when three 120db train horns are blaring from trucks parked in front of your apartment (as someone had to deal with the first week of the occupation) it was still unbearable.

I really don't understand either how fast and how far this got away from the control of the police. At the start, OPS leadership saw this as a valid protest and gave away a ton of ground from the get go. Ottawa downtown does not help in that there are 5 different authorities and their areas overlap: OPS, OPP, RCMP, NCC, PPS, plus the police in Gatineau. But the response from the police has been very disheartening. I think they have a chance of ending this during the week, but on the weekend when the autonomous zone grows to 5000+ people who are there to party and bring their kids it's a whole other nightmare.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#946

Post by gatlin »

_clhx wrote: post #665
sdsaga12 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a YouTube channel that has been doing extended livestreams from the ground with both protestors and counter-protestors: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ/vid... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread [1], I recommend taking a look at this channel or other extended livestreams to get a view from the ground if your impression of this event has been mostly shaped by articles. That recommendat…

Freedom of speech ends IMO when people can't sleep or enjoy the city they live in for a very extended time b/c of the 24/7 honking. I am all for demonstrating, but I think it is a little ridiculous what they are doing.

That's the entire point: to force you to see a problem they feel is ignored. Go tell them your feelings on free speech, I'm sure they'll listen.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#947

Post by southerntofu »

hindsightbias wrote: post #728
capybara_2020 wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a north American so I just catch glimpses of what is happening in articles that pop up like this. So I am not taking sides here. Just making an observation about protests in general. With that being said, how do you get noticed? I remember there was a Wall Street protest of some kind right after the crash. They sat quietly in parks and protested because people got annoyed when they were "inconvenienced" when…

Occupy Wall Street did not do a lot of shutdowns, they quickly migrated marches to sidewalks and sit downs to public spaces to the consternation of nypd. The reason they fizzled is they had absolutely zero marketing experience. When they finally got down to listing their demands, it was a 43 point manifesto from save the penquins to truther investigations. BLM really didn’t get anywhere (they initially had a ~14 poin…

The reason Occupy failed is not because of marketing, it's because they were not organized to face the raw powers of the State protecting Wall Street moguls. By peacefully demonstrating on sidewalks, you're not having any meaningful impact and you're not being heard.

Someone in this thread mentioned "civil disobedience" movements. Studying the history of such movements (anti-apartheid politics, workers movements, womens rights, anti-colonial struggles), we quickly realize although having a mass of non-violent protesters (popular support) is important, the actual balance of power lies with more militant groups putting actual pressure (sabotage, blockages, attacks) on our overlords to change things for the better.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#948

Post by southerntofu »

cornel_io wrote: post #916
capybara_2020 wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a north American so I just catch glimpses of what is happening in articles that pop up like this. So I am not taking sides here. Just making an observation about protests in general. With that being said, how do you get noticed? I remember there was a Wall Street protest of some kind right after the crash. They sat quietly in parks and protested because people got annoyed when they were "inconvenienced" when…

Nobody is owed attention - most small protests that stay legal are ignored because nobody gives a damn about the causes. Which is fine, we don't as a society have any obligation to pay attention to every fringe thing if it doesn't rise to the level where the legal system is activated and lawsuits or prosecutions are on the table. Doing illegal stuff to get attention only makes me less supportive of any cause, persona…

So if you agree with the cause (whichever it is) but disagree with the methods, what should we do? Parading down the streets once a year with signs never did anything for people's rights. Only through massive organized struggles and sabotage actions have workers, women, colonized peoples (etc) ever obtained something.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#949

Post by sleepingadmin »

abstract_put wrote: post #802
sleepingadmin wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> very few people have gone to get 'boosted' According to https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html , ~43% of eligible Canadians have a booster/3rd dose. > Most people have realized the covid shots are worthless How did you come to this conclusion? > Canada is going in the other direction with increase to restrictions? As far as I'm aware, Canada is stepping down restrictions as cases drop/ICU beds free up. C…

>According to https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html, ~43% of eligible Canadians have a booster/3rd dose.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/01/28/ontario-has-been...

https://www.narcity.com/toronto/ontarians-that-have-been-ful...

I actually go back to when I got my first shot. Nobody under 40 unless they had a morbidity qualified to get the shot. Yet 70% of canadians had the first shot already? It's impossible and they were fudging the numbers from the getgo.

>Most people have realized the covid shots are worthless. How did you come to this conclusion?

Lets unpack a little.

1. Efficacy of vaccine for omicron is well known for being worthless. Im sure I dont have to prove this.

2. Much more important factor. We found out the shots were misrepresented. It's not a vaccine. A vaccine prevents infection. The authorities clearly said 'if you get the vaccine, you dont get covid' but that's not at all how it is. You still get sick and contagious, it just reduces symptoms.

>As far as I'm aware, Canada is stepping down restrictions as cases drop/ICU beds free up. Can you share where restrictions are being increased?

The convoy ishappening because vaccination became mandatory for some truckers in January. That was a new restriction.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#950

Post by belval »

IainIreland wrote: post #381
pkd wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His father used the War Measures Act. This act was enacted to chisel down the powers of the WMA and has never been used since it was enacted.

As a Canadian: this response should not be downvoted. It is correct and important. The War Measures Act used during the October Crisis was a different law; the Emergencies Act, which was just invoked, was passed as a response to concerns about civil liberties and abuse of power under the WMA. Temporary laws made under the Emergencies Act are, unlike the WMA, subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Mor…

Laws made under the act are subject to the charter unless they invoke the non-withstanding clause.

Furthermore, have you read the link you sent? The entire "Provisions" explains while this is way out of line to deal with protesters in Ottawa.

Using it for "Public Order" as Trudeau is doing, was meant to be a tool against:

"The Act references the definition provided in the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act, which includes espionage, sabotage, detrimental foreign influences, activities which support the threat or use of violence for a political, religious or ideological objective; or those activities which threaten to undermine or otherwise destroy, or overthrow the Government of Canada."

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