President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#941

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

maeil wrote: post #905

trhway wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. I don't think so. Just look at what Americans buy. Money talks. Lip service doesn't count. >on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. the frog just doesn't notice the boiling. For example how discussing Chinese origin of covid got branded as racist in the public mentality - i think that branding is a grea…

It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans…

The "leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid" is that it was a natural zoonosis. There's very little support for the lab leak conspiracy theory in the scientific community.

Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press, contrary to what you're saying.

The reason why this theory has become so popular in the US is that it distracts from the disastrous response to the pandemic in the US.

China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since. Yet nearly two years later, the US is still struggling. As it says in Matthew, "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#942

Post by throwoutway » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

1123581321 wrote: post #702

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He froze (in state) tuition because the school is completely bankrolled by wealthy Chinese sending their kids to school. Every luxury car driving around town has a foreign student at the wheel.

It’s more complicated than that. They held the line on costs, which let them maintain the freeze, which increased enrollment and alum donations and made investments beyond low-hanging fruit possible. They claim not to have changed their mix of in-state. Daniels is a legitimate tightwad so it’s in character for him to take cost control seriously.

It’s about time politicians and school administrators start taking control of costs and tuition. We shouldn’t call them tightwads for it.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#943

Post by vmception » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

t0suj4 wrote: post #928

vmception wrote: post #190

Getting the actual opinion of anyone in China (or Hong Kong if you’re a worker and well integrated) is very difficult. There is a lot of reading between the lines necessary because of the network of reporting from other Chinese that’s worldwide. Note: those actual opinions are not necessarily “life is baaaad what a niiightmare”, they can be quite nuanced just like anywhere else. Something as simple as “I kind of like…

The Chinese officials see law as a tool to control masses. Their constitution is therefore no more than a piece of paper.

In that point I agree, I can simultaneously acknowledge that having any somewhat coherent process of law is a relatively new phenomenon in China. It's like they're playing a game of paperwork and Rule of Law to appease trading partners and investors.

Single party control is effectively party-less control, and the due process is not necessary, but there is a future convenience to making decisions seem less arbitrary while getting the behaviors they want from all persons.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#944

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #941

maeil wrote: post #905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans…

The "leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid" is that it was a natural zoonosis. There's very little support for the lab leak conspiracy theory in the scientific community. Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press, contrary to what you're saying. The reason why this theory has become so popular in the US is that it distracts from the disastrous response to the pandemic…

> China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since.

China has paid a huge economic cost for its zero COVID policy, not many other countries could or would afford such a solution. They aren’t the envy of the world (let alone America) in this regard.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#945

Post by a_square_peg » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

cronix wrote: post #899

a_square_peg wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think that it's a big problem and was thinking that not mentioning it would be an easier way to deal with it (i.e. expel the perpetrators). Expelling students who harass other students, or giving death threats (for the case of Emerson) should be a relatively straightforward decision without getting politics involved.

Pro-CCP students from China harassing an Anti-CCP student (or at least one critical of) from China while guests at a college in the US, about that students expression on his views of Tienanmen Square while in the US. Also, it seems, based on those statements made in the US, his family is being persecuted back in China. How does one separate politics when it's entirely political?

If we can agree that a student harassing another student while being enrolled in a US university is not acceptable under any situation, this should be able to be dealt with without mentioning 'China' at all. When I said separating political, I meant not bringing 'China' into the issue. As an example, if there was a clear case of assault by a perpetrator (in a different situation), even if there was a hate crime involved, the fact that an assault took place should be enough to press charge.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#946

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

rackjack wrote: post #763

frakkingcylons wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had regular contact with my relatives in FJ during the pandemic and there’s no lack of complaints. So I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Most Americans who do not have relatives in China think it is almost literally 1984.

Honestly the problem in my experience was the opposite: many American friends who visited me in Beijing expected it to be just as free as the west and were surprised when Google Facebook etc… didn’t work. This was well beyond the years where the GFW blocks were implemented. Come on, they expecting China to be openlike Japan or Thailand?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#947

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

PastelDeNata wrote: post #920

coupdejarnac wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think jumping down someone's throat for innocent ignorance is too productive. And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. That's what you get with state controlled media and people learning about the West by watching Friends or Transformers.

> And speaking as someone who has lived in China, their misconceptions of the West are comically bad as well. Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China. Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require.

> Not sure who you met, but a typical young person in China (aged under 40) would know more about the West than a young person in the West would know about China.

Only 60% of Chinese even attend high school (which isn’t compulsory), you are making a huge claim about the typical young person in China a when China is a huge country. Your claim might be true for comparing young Chinese in the big cities to all young Americans (including in small towns), but that isn’t a very fair comparison.

> Young people in China also know how to use VPNs to bypass the 'Great Firewall' to find whatever information they require.

VPNs to jump the GFW are incredibly unreliable (they tend to disappear after you pay your yearly fee), most don’t bother.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#948

Post by antiterra » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

throw10920 wrote: post #682

antiterra wrote: post #307

Which is stronger, our distaste for totalitarianism or our complete addiction to China’s market? It’s a dichotomy that leaves me confounded and unsurprised.

There's no "our" here. America is not a hivemind - it's a collection of individual citizens with very different perspectives. Personally, I would be alright with the price of my electronics doubling in exchange for us cutting off all trade with China, but I suspect that many of my representatives might not feel the same way...

We may not be a hive-mind, but we have a collective effect. I also would suggest (non-scientifically) that many of the people buying incredibly inexpensive clothes originally sourced from the Guangzhou fashion market are also deeply concerned about forced labor or films with screenplays altered to align with a totalitarian government’s wishes.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#949

Post by jeffyang » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #819

chmod600 wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean freedom is self-defeating? It comes down to a simple formula: are people learning and appreciating freedom faster than it's being diluted by people who are ignorant or disdainful of freedom? There's no fundamental reason one rate must remain above the other. Education, immigration trends, business, and culture all play a part. But once the anti-freedom are greater in number than the pro-freedom, then f…

Freedom is never absolute. You can respect other people's freedom to disagree with you, but not their freedom to kill you. You can choose to only stop them from the latter, but not the former.

Waitbutwhy has a great series about this: https://waitbutwhy.com/2019/08/story-of-us.html

Basically absolute freedom means less freedom overall because the strongest take over. Limiting freedom (eg you can't kill others) can mean more freedom overall as more of the population are able to exercise their (limited) freedoms.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#950

Post by trhway » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #941

maeil wrote: post #905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find. Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans…

The "leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid" is that it was a natural zoonosis. There's very little support for the lab leak conspiracy theory in the scientific community. Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press, contrary to what you're saying. The reason why this theory has become so popular in the US is that it distracts from the disastrous response to the pandemic…

>Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press

Please point to any major media discussing the Wuhan coronavirus GoF research involving human subjects (the EcoAliance's approved by NIH grant application is pretty clear about it).