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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#941

Post by NineStarPoint »

odessacubbage wrote: post #332
NineStarPoint wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in cases like this, the choice they’re making with their body can be directly responsible for the hospitalization and death of other people in their vicinity. Vaccines aren’t fool proof, every person who doesn’t take the vaccine is an increased chance for those who did take the vaccine to get exposed to a breakthrough case. I know I wouldn’t want to work in person at any place that didn’t have a vaccine manda…

are you overweight, elderly or otherwise immunocompromised? if not your risk of hospitalization or death [from covid19] is miniscule. >it being hard to be a part of society if you refuse to take one of the most basic steps to protect other people in it. there are a huge number of diseases you can knowingly spread with far more severe long term consequences while still being 'part of society'. frankly i do not think f…

Most of those other diseases aren’t nearly as contagious. Many of those other diseases we don’t have an easy solution for. None of those other diseases were something that we shut down normal operations for months over. Very notably, we don’t have any diseases in recent memory that had a risk at completely overwhelming our hospital system if not dealt with. Small percent chance it may be, but while it is no spanish flu, Corona is still many times more dangerous than the flu, especially on a wide spread level.

For the vaccines we do have, public schools in most states already require vaccination. Almost every state already requires that children in public schools have the DTaP, IPV, MMR, Varicella, and HepB vaccines to enter Kindergarten. And I would personally have no problems spreading those and the flu shot as a requirement in the same vein as I stated above either.

We are indeed mammals that are walking bags of filth, but we also have minds that we can use to help deal with that fact. We can’t indefinitely contain, and we can’t completely stop transmittable illness. But coronavirus is one of the handful of diseases we now have a tool to deal with, and not taking advantage of that tool to stop needless death and waste is a massive dereliction of duty to one’s fellow man. This isn’t about “not letting anyone die ever from transmittable illness,” this is about a specific dangerous disease that we have invented a tool to help stop.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#942

Post by mlang23 »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #399
mlang23 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status. So we effectively reached a point where you are only allowed to be critical of vaccination after you got yourself a shot. This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Things said and claimed by all sides in the past 1 1/2 years have made me really stop believe in humanity. It feels like a bad dream or a stra…

>What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status. The political status of this website requires me to disclaimer. I expect even with the disclaimer I will be attacked regardless. If not downvoted to the point that my words are hidden. Which isn't much of a prediction because this post is already downvoted. >This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Thin…

I dont feel it is really relevant how many people "can" get the vaccine. First of all, if you can/should get it with your current medical condition is also a fluid thing. One doctor might advice against, another might advice you to get the shot anyway. So this is no clear cut number. There is also the social pressure. So someone might be adviced by their doctor to not get the shot, but they feel so much peer pressure that they decide to take the risk anyway. Ignoring all these issues and claiming their might be a clear cut number just underlines the complete lack of empathy and understanding of how humans work.

The point is that vaccination is still not mandatory, but vaxed people behave towards unvaxed as if it were.

But whats most devastating about all of this is that it made anxious people go fully nuts and break out of their protective shell. I have an axious mother, so I know a bit or two about how anxiety can have bad effects on the people surrounding the anxious. Most of these people were able to "hide" most of their issues and be mostly functioning humans. The pandemic has changed them into little political activists, and has destroyed most of their remaining true social connections. I cant be bothered to spend time if over-anxious people anymore. Life is too short.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#943

Post by NineStarPoint »

ktkoffroth wrote: post #688
NineStarPoint wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in cases like this, the choice they’re making with their body can be directly responsible for the hospitalization and death of other people in their vicinity. Vaccines aren’t fool proof, every person who doesn’t take the vaccine is an increased chance for those who did take the vaccine to get exposed to a breakthrough case. I know I wouldn’t want to work in person at any place that didn’t have a vaccine manda…

Worrying about getting other people sick when you do not reasonable suspicion that you are sick is a moral trap. If something is "everyone's" responsibility, then it really is _no one's_ responsibility, because there is no way to determine who spread the disease to whom. In this case, it's best to simply take the steps you feel necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

I personally believe you should also take the steps to decrease the risk of you harming people you don’t know, not just yourself and loved ones. Lowering your own chance of getting sick is part of that. If your habits lead to you getting sick x% of the time, and infecting someone else unknowingly y% of the time, which causes death z% of the time, you can consider your actions to have some statistical likelihood of killing someone. Within reasonable limits, trying to get that xyz lower is part of ones personal responsibility to me. To me it’s not a moral trap to say that people should feel responsibility for their actions beyond their ability to directly trace their actions to a specific harm.

What reasonable limits are, and above that at what point the government should step in and say your actions are too dangerous to your fellow man (or if government should have that power at all) are of course very hard lines to draw.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#944

Post by [deleted] »

Apofis wrote: post #934
walterbell wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMR vaccines are sterilizing, i.e. you take them once and done. No lifetime booster subscription. Current Covid vaccines are non-sterilizing. They do not provide immunity that is equivalent to the MMR vaccine. A future (nasal) Covid vaccine may offer long-term mucosal and blood/serum immunity.

Why isn't the nasal vaccine being produced?

[deleted]

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#945

Post by XorNot »

freeopinion wrote: post #930
XorNot wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are literally not allowed to work in aged care, schools or hospitals without taking a flu vaccine every year. You also can't smoke while in the wards. It is a firable offense to not wash your hands if you work in a restaurant. It is a mandate at most companies to take sensitivity training. Restaurants can reject you for not wearing covered shoes and a suitable jacket.

You replaced "society" with specific and narrow niches of society. That's not the same thing.

You are glossing over what the vaccine mandates actually are. No one has prevented you from existing by not being vaccinated: but across all those areas and others like it, they are requiring you to be vaccinated.

The recent NYC mandate for example is specifically about attending indoor venues on Manhattan island - restaurants and theatres and such.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#946

Post by nl »

nanis wrote: post #246
nl wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming this is good or bad? By comparison, in some years the influenza vaccine is under 40% effective. 0.9 deaths per 1 million is amazing (especially given the likely age profile). See https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200902/how-effective-is-th... for some information about the flu vaccine. In April the vaccination rate was much lower. In a hypothetical situation where 100% of people are vaccinated, all C…

> Are you claiming this is good or bad? Neither. In April, the rate of death from Covid19 among those fully vaccinated against Covid19 was 0.9/million. By August 9, it was at 7.5/million. CDC used to provide updates every Friday for the preceding Monday. The rate increased with every report. The last update was on August 13. So, I wondered why they had not updated on Friday this time. I see now that they just posted…

> The rate increased with every report.

Delta is pretty bad isn't it?

I don't think this is news to anyone. There is increasing evidence that the length of protection vaccination gives is less than ideal - hence the need to booster shots.

> I see now that they just posted an update since this thread started[1] and after the approval was announced. This will increase my posterior belief that the update had been held back to happen after the approval announcement for political reasons.

It came out on a Monday instead of a Friday. There was zero evidence of any political interest in the date of the release of this data before, and there are thousands of potential explanations for any delay. But sure.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#947

Post by walterbell »

Apofis wrote: post #934
walterbell wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMR vaccines are sterilizing, i.e. you take them once and done. No lifetime booster subscription. Current Covid vaccines are non-sterilizing. They do not provide immunity that is equivalent to the MMR vaccine. A future (nasal) Covid vaccine may offer long-term mucosal and blood/serum immunity.

Why isn't the nasal vaccine being produced?

Some are in trials.

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/india-n...

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-sniffing-alternative-...

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/researchers-begin-...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#948

Post by _flagged_ »

yupper32 wrote: post #914
criticaltinker wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of down-votes and no replies tells me this is striking some nerves - anyone care to articulate why you disagree with or do not support these statements?

Almost no one on HN is qualified to take a group of medical journal articles/research papers and form an accurate opinion on the subject. In fact, trying to do so for most on this forum would probably result in inaccurate views due to misunderstanding the articles and papers. So people probably downvoted because you have a view on the subject, but no one is qualified to back or oppose it. And we don't know who you ar…

In that case almost all of the comments here should be downvoted or flagged.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#949

Post by valenterry »

dbrueck wrote: post #544
valenterry wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemrix#Narcolepsy

That link says "symptoms occurred one to two months after vaccination" or am I misreading it?

Yes - but I think the 4 years that OP mentioned are not about the onset of symptoms, but rather the time until when the vaccine is officially not being used anymore or at least the time when these effects become visible to common folks (i.e. being picked up by the media).

In the case of Pandremix, the vaccine was continued to be used for 2 years or so after the first cases of narcolepsy became visible.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#950

Post by kalleboo »

odessacubbage wrote: post #332
NineStarPoint wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in cases like this, the choice they’re making with their body can be directly responsible for the hospitalization and death of other people in their vicinity. Vaccines aren’t fool proof, every person who doesn’t take the vaccine is an increased chance for those who did take the vaccine to get exposed to a breakthrough case. I know I wouldn’t want to work in person at any place that didn’t have a vaccine manda…

are you overweight, elderly or otherwise immunocompromised? if not your risk of hospitalization or death [from covid19] is miniscule. >it being hard to be a part of society if you refuse to take one of the most basic steps to protect other people in it. there are a huge number of diseases you can knowingly spread with far more severe long term consequences while still being 'part of society'. frankly i do not think f…

> if not your risk of hospitalization or death [from covid19] is miniscule.

On an individual level, maybe sure, but on a population level, enough people are getting sick to cause medical systems to collapse. I live in a G7 country where people are dying at home since they can't get a hospital bed.

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