Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#941

Post by mssundaram » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

DataGata wrote: post #908

mssundaram wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been fired from your family? For some that analogy has happened, but for most people it's an exception, but for a job it's a much more real possibility. I'm a mercenary at my job. No allegiance but to my interests, because the leadership and shareholders have the same perspective

Are you responding to the parent comment? Do you not see how "I'm a mercenary" is as toxic as "I hustle 12 hours a day everyday"?

I don't see how it is toxic, no. It saves me from toxicity in fact. I get to live more freely and happily knowing my role clearly.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#942

Post by phendrenad2 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

mtberatwork wrote: post #774

phendrenad2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just like to add to that: 1. The daily routine and commute helps reset your brain and get you in/out of "work mode" 2. You don't have to cannibalize your home desk to make way for your work PC, or set up a second desk for work PC 3. No deciding what to get for lunch, it's whatever is closest or catered, no wanting a coffee and finding that you need to run to the store 4. If your team isn't meeting your sprint goa…

> The daily routine and commute helps reset your brain and get you in/out of "work mode" This paints a rosy picture of the daily commute which is simply not true [1]. Furthermore, the argument that going into the office gets you in and out of "work mode" doesn't stand up either. With instant communication channels like email, Slack, et al and a lack of labor regulations regarding after-hour work communications (at le…

Perhaps I've been lucky to work at places where work did truly end at 5pm, about 90% of workdays (of course if the servers are on fire, or a customer can't log in, that necessitates after-hours work, but once it's done, it's done). It's a work culture thing, and instant communication channels don't necessarily lead to everyone being on-call 24/7. I'm sure that existed pre-internet also ("Boss called, I need to go back into the office and finish some paperwork...")

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#943

Post by recursive » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

andrei_says_ wrote: post #611

pezdeath wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone's an engineer. Lots of roles work better in person.

Could you provide some examples? I am speaking of roles who successfully performed 100% of their work from home in the last year. Also, why are engineers being forced to come back to the office?

I am an engineer who successfully performed my work from home.

But I definitely prefer to work in an office.

> Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them?

In this question, there is an embedded assumption that your employer wants you to suffer more.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#944

Post by bryan_w » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #911

pezdeath wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone's an engineer. Lots of roles work better in person.

Even some engineers prefer to work in-person, although I'm now coming to understand it appears to be a minority. At least in this comment thread.

I think we don't really know the breakdown of people who prefer in person vs not, but the remote people are REALLY passionate about their position

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#945

Post by LocalPCGuy » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

P_I_Staker wrote: post #833

ferdowsi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone. When I look back on hallway conversations, I can't think of many that really mattered. Actual important decisions are typically not made by IC engineers. Relevant conversations are usually inside team structures and not spontaneous.

> Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone. What!?!? I don't necessarily agree with OP, but this is the exact opposite of my experience (mostly observing others). One of the main downsides of WFH is the "always on" nature of it. I usually left my laptop at work, and ignored my phone b…

For me, it may look like I work longer hours than before, but I find my work hours less concentrated. I usually try to log on by 9am and will find myself finishing up between 6pm and 8pm depending on the day. But I often step away a number of times throughout the day for various reasons (no kids, but I assume those with kids have even more reasons for taking a few minutes here and there away from work). It also allows me to do something else during low-energy periods rather than trying to force myself to work (I've even rarely tried naps, although it never works well for me).

The effect is that it leads to a "longer" work day, but less concentrated than it would have been in the office. And similar productivity, IMO. I wonder if some of your co-workers you describe may do the same. In some ways, I feel like it's better work-life balance for some people as it's "ok" (in some work cultures) for WFH employees to take the time as they need it. And others are equally fine ensuring their work time is as concentrated as possible because they have other things they would rather do in evenings, etc.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#946

Post by heavyset_go » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #853

ls15 wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only applies if the home is empty when people are at the office. If my family stays at home while I commute, then there are emissions from commuting, heating the home and heating the office.

Not even then - nobody likes to return to a very cold home after a day at the office. It'll take advances in insulation to become much more widespread before a meaningful amount of people starts shutting off heating when away. That means first tearing down and rebuilding a lot of buildings, because you can't just bolt this kind of insulation tech onto an old construction.

> Not even then - nobody likes to return to a very cold home after a day at the office.

I'm also not going to let my pets freeze or bake while no one is home.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#947

Post by LocalPCGuy » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

decodebytes wrote: post #577

cheschire wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some folks with crippling social anxiety might have a bone to pick with this assertion.

Surely if they have crippling social anxiety, being stuck in an office all day with others where they are expected to socialise no matter how bad their anxiety might be playing up on any given day, is far worse? Also the only social part I referenced was coffee with close friends. I think drinking a coffee with an understanding friend(s) is much easier then being around 20+ colleagues for 8 hours straight.

Depends on the person. I am generally fine in a "being stuck in the office all day" situation, but get anxiety trying to setup plans for social interactions, even with really close friends. Even just coffee. Also, 1 on 1 situations tend to cause me more anxiety that groups/crowds.

Point being, everyone is different in this regard.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#948

Post by ergocoder » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #932

ergocoder wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just say out loud "why can't I taste anything?" No need to invest in a blood capsule. Even with vaccine, there is 1-2% to contract covid. Even you can't die, you will still be scared to give it to your kids.

From reports, even if you catch it, the vaccine will attenuate the virus enough so that it's unlikely that you'll have a sufficient viral load to spread it to others.

The keyword is "unlikely".

No matter how low the risk is, most people wouldn't gamble their kids' lives over "commute to office".

Please help me cough.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#949

Post by nemo44x » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #927

matt-attack wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because diversity and inclusion pretty much means “blacks” and “women” fullstop. I was recently hiring a developer and my massive media company insisted I ensure my recruiter is giving me diverse candidates. I selected an individual who is apparently Spanish Jewish. Some very rare tribe of Jews from Spain. Was that considered diverse? Nope. Needs to be black.

Not that I agree with those mandates too much, but I can see the logic: A group needs to have a story of oppression in your local community to be considered for that. Diversity is a somewhat misleading word here, the aim is equality for historically disfavored groups.

The aim for it is "equality of outcomes" without merit or actual achievement and that's all. Of course only in certain, sought after, select things. And of course these policies won't stop after we have achieved "equality" if current college admissions and graduation trends are any indication (women represent 60% now, yet nobody says we need to discontinue programs designed to ensure success for them or that we should address the problem of men falling behind - in fact we blame men for it).

It's why Asian's are beginning to wake up to this as they've, as a group, been "too successful" and are seeing ever meritocratic device they've used to lift themselves up dismantled and replaced with lotteries, etc that ensure equal outcomes (even they won't).

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#950

Post by jdgoesmarching » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

jseban wrote: post #820

watermelon59 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not care about being competitve. > I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I c…

I think it's a perfectly healthy and normal attitude to have, but the thing is that it's only your perspective as the employee, and to avoid being short sighted and irresponsible, you have to also to some extent consider the perspective of the company as well. I mean, in the extension if nobody cares a single f about being competitive, then maybe your whole company doesn't care about being competitive either, and oop…

There are people who’s job it is to care about the perspective of the company, and they make a lot more than any of us.

If a company wants its employees to care, it can re-organize itself as a co-op. Until then, our relationship is purely transactional.