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Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

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Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#941

Post by medium_burrito »

chkaloon wrote: post #939

What US society is struggling with is what to replace church with. It provided community and mutual support, but combined it with a myth that many could not accept any longer. The big question is what can provide the community and mutual support without the binding myth. There hasn't been a replacement thus far that has taken hold. Also, the combination of online life and recently the pandemic has weakened what local…

If our population was better educated, I feel like togas, buggery and acropolises could be a real option.

Not more degrees, but well read- history, philosophy, religious literature, science shit, etc.

Also, the whole wokespeak has seriously destroyed public discourse- not just from the right but on the left.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#943

Post by koboll »

chkaloon wrote: post #939

What US society is struggling with is what to replace church with. It provided community and mutual support, but combined it with a myth that many could not accept any longer. The big question is what can provide the community and mutual support without the binding myth. There hasn't been a replacement thus far that has taken hold. Also, the combination of online life and recently the pandemic has weakened what local…

>There hasn't been a replacement thus far that has taken hold.

The replacement is social media.

Is it a good replacement? Absolutely not.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#944

Post by Jetrel »

bckr wrote: post #872
simplerman wrote: post #849

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In modern no-religion societies, where is the pull for good old family values? What we are seeing is better rights and fairness for individuals (same-sex marriage, etc) but is that good for society as a whole? I understand where you are coming from, I struggle with my atheism/beliefs too. But without doubt, this is good for society. Think about it, we had slavery because bible and other religions, approved of slave…

I wouldn't say that religion caused these ills. Religion was used to justify these ills.

Agreed - one of the other things to consider is that the vast bulk of i.e. abolitionist momentum in the US came predominantly from the church.

What slavery was doing, from an industrial and economic standpoint was wonderful for the owners, and very hard to quit - all of the objections to it were moral. I.e. "it's great apart from that pesky little detail where it's horrifically evil."

Quite a few antebellum churches desperately tried to plaster over this extreme cognitive dissonance between their teachings, and the practice of their society. You can find plenty of published material to that effect, but all of it has the same sort of flavor as Orwell's "some animals are more equal than others", wherein it has to somehow invalidate all of their core ideological principles, generally without a logically rigorous reason. ("All humans are equal" -> "well, what about them?" -> "oh well, uh, they're not really human" -> "because?" -> "reasons." )

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#945

Post by rorykoehler »

CedarMills wrote: post #93

As a believer and someone who attends church regularly, this is sad but not unexpected. From my own personal experience - if the church cannot answer questions clearly, their members will look for answers somewhere else. A lot of churches unfortunately are so elementary in their teaching or turn to "feel good preaching" (see Elevation Church). The longterm effect is that a person ends up being tired of getting the sa…

As a non believer I love to see it. Believing in something you can’t prove and in turn trying to shove it down everyone’s throat is the antithesis to the world I want to live in. George W Bush and Tony Blair both admitted that the second gulf war was partially a religious crusade. This is who you’re teaming up with.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#946

Post by medium_burrito »

koboll wrote: post #943
chkaloon wrote: post #939

What US society is struggling with is what to replace church with. It provided community and mutual support, but combined it with a myth that many could not accept any longer. The big question is what can provide the community and mutual support without the binding myth. There hasn't been a replacement thus far that has taken hold. Also, the combination of online life and recently the pandemic has weakened what local…

>There hasn't been a replacement thus far that has taken hold. The replacement is social media. Is it a good replacement? Absolutely not.

You know, it makes me think of William Gibson's idea of Slitscan:

“[Slitscan's audience] is best visualized as a vicious, lazy, profoundly ignorant, perpetually hungry organism craving the warm god-flesh of the anointed. Personally I like to imagine something the size of a baby hippo, the color of a week-old boiled potato, that lives by itself, in the dark, in a double-wide on the outskirts of Topeka. It's covered with eyes and it sweats constantly. The sweat runs into those eyes and makes them sting. It has no mouth, Laney, no genitals, and can only express its mute extremes of murderous rage and infantile desire by changing the channels on a universal remote. Or by voting in presidential elections.”

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#947

Post by wyclif »

methodin wrote: post #785
petre wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand why some people have to turn to atheism when not participating in organised religion is quite easy enough. This is what the article implies, church membership as opposed to faith. Why even bother to deny something that others believe without proof and needlessly argue about it? Maybe it makes them happy, more secure. Vocal atheists usually annoy me more than christian evanghelists, mostly be…

Because the U.S. still has not even come close to mastering the separation of church and state which means depending on where you live it will confront you frequently whether you like or not. Burying your head in the sand does nothing if you believe the premise of that separation is virtuous. I am not atheist myself but I have yet to see anyone I know be vocal about their atheism, yet I know many that are vocal about…

The so-called 'separation of church and state' bromide comes from Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, not the Constitution.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#948

Post by bnjms »

marc_abonce wrote: post #850
elmomle wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty clear that that "worship" here refers to where we practice focusing our heart's yearnings, not to a set of religious rites. Synonyms of this meaning of "worship" include "revere" and "venerate".

It's worth pointing out that this equivalence is only possible in the English language (and maybe other Germanic languages?) where apparently the word worship means a lot of concepts (adoration, veneration, reverence) that in Romance languages are actually separate. In fact, the disagreement over this words is one of the most important differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. I don't know how does this dist…

This is the most interesting take on this thread. What is otherwise a lot of atheists misunderstanding the English usage of worship by religious people and those familiar with them.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#949

Post by p1mrx »

chkaloon wrote: post #939

What US society is struggling with is what to replace church with. It provided community and mutual support, but combined it with a myth that many could not accept any longer. The big question is what can provide the community and mutual support without the binding myth. There hasn't been a replacement thus far that has taken hold. Also, the combination of online life and recently the pandemic has weakened what local…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Assembly is a reasonable attempt... or at least it was when people could actually meet in places.

Re: Gallup: U.S. church membership dips below 50% for first time

#950

Post by ip26 »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #167
nly wrote: post #35

For comparison, UK church membership is Numbers for those claiming to be of "No religion" range from from 50 to 60% depending on region. 38% don't believe in God or any higher spiritual power. The interesting thing is people will identify as Christian on the census while also not claiming to subscribe to any particular religion in other surveys. 2021 census (just completed this month) results will be interesting http…

Growing up in the 80's (UK) as a Roman Catholic, I remember the services being full on Sunday mornings. Not been since I left home at 18, because frankly I stopped believing in God the same time I stopped believing in Father Christmas (7?). The only reason I went was to make my parents happy. Now I'm in my 40's I do wonder if the lack of religion in society is leading us to a bad place. We know from numerous studies…

In modern no-religion societies, where is the pull for good old family values?

Hopefully we figure out how to build more stable unions by rebuilding a supportive framework (which church used to help with). Rather than forbidding divorce- provide tools, education, safety nets, etc, that parents may be more successful nurturing their relationship with each other. I have come to believe community is really valuable for the health of families, despite the nuclear ideal.

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