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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

houstonchronicle.com

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#941

Post by WillPostForFood »

JamesBarney wrote: post #717
WillPostForFood wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right if they were trying to reduce load 50%, that's basically impossible for the reasons you mention. They were only trying to get it down 20% and it might have worked if they could have effectively rolled the blackouts. A lot of people have natural gas heat. It doesn't work when the power is out (no ignition, no thermostat, and no fan), but doesn't put a huge load on the electric grid when it is on. For a w…

I don't know about North Texas but I don't think gas furnaces are that common in Houston or Austin.

I don't know what the geographic distribution is, but overall the state is split evenly between between natural gas and electric heat (45% each), with the remainder being misc sources like propane.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#942

Post by fuzzfactor »

gregw2 wrote: post #213
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

Power down at home in west Houston before daylight Monday.

Lost water before daylight Tuesday.

Power came back on just before daylight Wednesday, off just over 48 hrs, not as bad as some hurricanes.

Water service unlikely for a few more days, worse than any hurricane this century.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#943

Post by sixothree »

cactus2093 wrote: post #887
dalbasal wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is meta/tangent, but I've had similar conversations a few times recently. Seems to be in the zeitgeist. Re: everyone starts deciding what they believe to be truth within 48 hours of the outage. Maybe, hopefully... the epidemic is humbling us. It's been significant and long lasting enough to rub our noses in whatever opinions we so brashly got behind too early. Professors and peasants alike. We're more likely to…

Nah, it’s very easy to selectively forget what you ended up being wrong about and remember what you got right (or close enough to pretend it was right). I was wearing an n95 mask in the grocery store starting March 1st last year, there was no reason at that point to think it wouldn’t help and I still can’t comprehend why someone like Fauci who said in no uncertain terms not to wear a mask, it won’t help never faced a…

> I still can’t comprehend why someone like Fauci who said in no uncertain terms not to wear a mask

I thought the general assumption was they were afraid of dramatically affecting supply for the people who were risking their lives taking care of sick patients.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#944

Post by JshWright »

Thrymr wrote: post #688
JshWright wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not feasible to run a gas furnace off a battery (short of a "whole house" battery like a Powerball). It's more than just basic management. You need to run either a blower or a pump to distribute the heat throughout the house. You'd need a substantial battery to run a 1/3 HP motor for any length of time.

A gas boiler furnace with steam radiators typically only requires power for the thermostat and solenoid valve, which can indeed be powered by a small battery. This is assuming you have a pilot light, which many older furnaces do.

Residential steam boilers are pretty rare these days. Generally hot water heat uses circulation pumps (which draw less than a forced air blower, but still have a non-trivial continuous current draw)

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#945

Post by katbyte »

theshrike79 wrote: post #816
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why you got downvoted, this is a good backup strategy. I have natural gas heating and a combi smart boiler which runs on electricity. Even if I still have the gas link operational, if my power goes down then my heating is dead. This news of Texas actually reminded, that I should have some sort of emergency winter heating backup, and a boat or camping kerosene heater is a actually a pretty solid idea for…

The whole prepper community isn't completely crazy. Everyone really should have a Bug Out Bag or a Bug In Bag ready or at least under construction. You don't need to go overboard with tons of dried food and a nuclear fallout shelter. Just a cheap multi-fuel camping stove and some canned food will last you a few days easily.

Bug out/in bag seems like a weird term, kinda adds to the “crazy” of preppies. here it’s just called your emergency/ earthquake kit - 1-2 weeks of food and some amount of water.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#946

Post by [deleted] »

masklinn wrote: post #797
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #777

You'd probably be more comfortable if you left your house and went winter camping. Surprisingly, it's not that difficult to stay warm while winter camping, you just have to be doing something: cooking, eating, exploring, talking. Learn neat skills like: keep your water in a cooler so it doesn't freeze; pee in a nalgene rather than go outside to pee, then keep the nalgene in your sleeping bag to retain heat; eating to…

That requires winter camping gear. Which you could use inside your home if you have it in the first place . It’s also a bit late to learn winter camping if you’re already stranded with neither electricity nor gear.

[deleted]

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#947

Post by pwinnski »

Waterluvian wrote: post #341
mikesabbagh wrote: post #270

It is surprising that windfarms are freezing. Here in Quebec, we have windfarms that have more than 6 months a year of snow and temperatures much below the freezing point. How can they freeze? they dont use water or gaz or oil. It is only a fan and dynamo. Did water seep inside and freeze it?

-15C the other night, watching the wind turbines in Southern Ontario spinning away. It's probably that theirs are cheaper because why pay for more hardened tech if the typical range isn't this?

Wind turbines have not been the issue here in Texas. They've been delivering more power than expected, despite some of them freezing. The problem is with natural gas/coal plants.

That said, yes, we don't use lubricant for super-cold weather, because we don't normally have super-cold weather. So we use cheaper stuff that is suited for our normal climate, where heat is usually a bigger problem than cold. It's been ten years since the last time it would have been important, and 12 years before that.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#948

Post by fuzzfactor »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #938
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

0. Houston Lighting & Power Local monopoly. 1. Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Holding_Company... Limited the profits of a utility holding company, spurring the formation of additional shell companies to each get the maximum allowed. Overturned in 2005, when today's highly increased risk was cemented. 2. Houston Industries, Inc. https://www.referenceforbusiness.…

Forgot to mention the 27-story Houston Public Works building downtown which was built in the 1960's by HL&P still has the nicely air-conditioned parking garage.

No garage doors to keep the cold air in since it didn't really matter to the power company.

No mayor has ever wanted citizens to be very aware of that since the city took over the building in 1999.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#949

Post by fuzzfactor »

C19is20 wrote: post #808
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Houston right now, haven't had power, nor water since yesterday. My room is sitting at 20ish degrees and has been all day. I've quite literally been snug under a load of blankets with my wife all day just to stay warm. My office back in Dallas which is not normally open offered to let people stay the night since they happen to be on the same grid as a hospital and I seriously considered trying to make it there today

20 degrees? Laughs in European. Until "Oh, °f for 'freedom degrees'" realised.

did not downvote, but

Dr. Fahrenheit was of course the famous European physicist who invented the mercury-in-glass thermometer.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#950

Post by soulofmischief »

aardvarkr wrote: post #123
soulofmischief wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: I live in Texas and have 100% renewable energy, so I feel sidelined by such comments.

Just an FYI, unless you’re off the grid you aren’t actually 100% renewable. I live in Texas and found this to be super confusing when I signed up for power for the first time. If you think about it for a second it makes sense that you’re getting the same energy as the rest of your neighbors and the grid is made up of many many different types of power plants. The “100% renewable” bit means that when the power broker…

That's how money works. It's a transactional abstraction. It doesn't matter how many times it changes hands as long as it ends up in the right place.
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