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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#941

Post by incrudible »

aww_dang wrote: post #488
eejit_compiler wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens to the Republican party over the next few years, given that they've ended up tying themselves so strongly to Trump's cult of personality.

It appears as if they started distancing themselves as soon as he lost. There was always a contingent of "Never Trumpers". Politicians are fickle. It will be interesting to see what happens, more so because I expect widespread disillusionment from Trump republicans.

> There was always a contingent of "Never Trumpers". Politicians are fickle.

Trump isn't really a Republican, it's just that on some key issues, his position aligns better with the Republican party. The majority of the Republican party was openly anti-Trump in the beginning, then later turned around due to his massive public support.

That hasn't really changed, his approval is as stable as ever. The only people buying into the "failed coup" narrative are the ones that never supported him to begin with. Dropping Trump, as much as the party might want to, is not a recipe for success. Strategically, dividing the Republican party will be the prime objective of Democrats.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#942

Post by vharuck »

cambalache wrote: post #935
Jochim wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem like any other groups are interested in supporting them either or else they wouldn't have any issue paying to self host/finding a willing provider.

So the same dynamics that has happened through history when one group is qualified as "untouchable" and any association with them, even if purely commercial, will bring retaliation.

We have to distinguish between those who are untouchable because of circumstances beyond their control (lineage, birthplace, disabilities) and those who are pariahs because of their behavior (criminals, militant anarchists, that mean old guy who sits on his porch with a shotgun).

I have sympathy for the former, but not the latter. While it would be kind to reach out to the latter group and help them mesh with society, there's no requirement anyone has to nor a guarantee the pariahs would want to mesh.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#943

Post by a_conservative »

jeltz wrote: post #896
Noos wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not incredible. It's pretty much an open double standard at this point, because political leftism is seen as the only true ideology a rational person can have. The rhetoric about conservatism is increasingly casting conservatives as vulnerable to irrational forces like fake news or algorithims that can override their will and make them believe patently absurd things. If you are conservative or lean to it, its in…

Pretty much agreed and I am probably more to the left than almost everyone here. I have seen way too often people who normally want to regulate corprotions (just like I want) suddenly become corporate fanboys in support for unregulated capitalism as soon as some big corporation shut down a voice they did not like. Personally I hate the hypocrisy and also think that the cure might end up to be worse than the disease.…

I'm so sad today. I came from a very left-wing background, becoming conservative gradually over decades. I've learned to self-censor and keep my ideas to myself along the way to keep the peace, hoping the many left-wing people in my life would eventually see how intolerant they were becoming.

Looks like my choices are to stuff everything I believe down deep inside and hope I can participate in society, keep a job, support my family, etc. OR to speak up and risk losing everything. This is the true mob to fear. Everything is being torn down to get the "bad guys". Everything.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#944

Post by mrkramer »

hehehaha wrote: post #877
mrkramer wrote: post #870

I feel like decentralized solution like Bitcoin would solve the problems of responsibility, liability and trust. There needs to be economic incentives and costs throughout the network. You as a processing node can support who ever you want and you can collect fees from them for processing transactions. For example if majority of nodes do not want to process certain transactions from certain individuals or organizatio…

Not everything can and should be solved by half-baked blockchain technologies.

Bitcoin was in alpha when Satoshi released it and then left 2 years later. If he/she stayed Bitcoin would be something like PayPal is today. Without founder/s projects aren't the same just like when Jobs left Apple, Apple almost disappeared under new leadership.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#945

Post by mrkramer »

mrkramer wrote: post #870

I feel like decentralized solution like Bitcoin would solve the problems of responsibility, liability and trust. There needs to be economic incentives and costs throughout the network. You as a processing node can support who ever you want and you can collect fees from them for processing transactions. For example if majority of nodes do not want to process certain transactions from certain individuals or organizatio…

Typo:

remaining nodes*

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#946

Post by tadfisher »

nailer wrote: post #869
Griffinsauce wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the leader of the free world can be banned from all social media and co, who are based in the very same nation, and who are monopolies, then what hope is there for the rest of us? 1. "leader of the free world" is an incredibly arrogant statement. 2. He can be banned for the same reason that the rest of us can: inciting violence. I'd argue that having equal rules for everyone (or even _stricter_ ones for politici…

Trump called for a March on the Capitol building. This is a very common thing for politicians to do. This does not constitute inciting violence.

You may read his statements so, but his followers treated them as marching orders.

https://twitter.com/LiteraryMouse/status/1347873498925064194

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#947

Post by atoav »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

Non-US-citizen here: Isn't the first amendment protecting private people and entities (e.g. newspapers) from government influence into free speech?

Private companies deciding not to service the head of the executive seems to be nearly the opposite of that, unless I understood this wrongly (which is entirely possible). Think of a newspaper (=private entity) decides to boycott a president and not write anything about him. Wouldn't it be the polar opposite of free speech if the president then had the power to force them to write about him?

I get that a payment service is not the same as a newspaper, but it is still a private entity.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#948

Post by gfodor »

anigbrowl wrote: post #735
gfodor wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The words you just wrote about necessary force are the same ones coming out of the mouths of those you wrote them about. It should be obvious where this road leads unless we have a leader wake us up.

It's perfectly OK to punch someone back after they've punched you first. You're not obliged to stand there and keep reasoning with them while they hit you again.

Put this in a frame and hang it. It describes war.

If that is what you seek, so be it. Everyone argues their war is just. But war is always the same, no matter how just it is.

If that is not what you seek, consider how to move towards peace.

The worst thing to do is to cause a war when you wanted peace, because you didn't understand what was happening.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#949

Post by gfodor »

nobody9999 wrote: post #710
gfodor wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claiming they are not public squares is correct and says very little. When capitalism revealed its ability to create abusive monopolies, we created new laws to mitigate those harms. When the whole worlds discourse flows through a few centralized social media companies, as a society we are free to imagine new legal concepts and regulations to deal with the unforeseeable consequences of these new phenomena.

>When the whole worlds discourse flows through a few centralized social media companies, as a society we are free to imagine new legal concepts and regulations to deal with the unforeseeable consequences of these new phenomena. Where did I say that wasn't appropriate? I strongly believe that those big social media companies not only have too much power and influence, but that their business models are exploitative an…

We are in 100% agreement. I apologize for misunderstanding your comment.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#950

Post by skedaddle »

rayiner wrote: post #606
trustfundbaby wrote: post #279

I was on the fence about this, but reading the comments convinced me it was the absolute right decision. The fact that all these institutions just allowed this horrible hateful speech for four years, in the name of free speech etc, despite all the harassment, harm (mental and otherwise) it caused to so many people in America actually emboldened so many to the extent that now that they crossed this invisible line, the…

What counts as “horrible hateful speech?” The media has been publishing articles recently with outright racist slurs against white people (using phrases like “unbearable whiteness”). Is that hateful speech? (I think so but then again I’m an elder Millennial.) And does the fact that it’s the President saying something warrant giving him more or less latitude? The right and moral thing to do was to give the duly electe…

It was massive in scope and objectively false when he claimed Covid-19 was completely under control, compared favorably to the flu, was just misdiagnosed sniffles/flu, that it was going to miraculously disappear, etc
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