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Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#941

Post by jmull »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

> I don't believe in free speech without limits.

Does anyone?

I know people say they do, but they also reject the direct consequences of it, so obviously don’t mean it or don’t understand it.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#942

Post by whoknew1122 »

As an AWS employee: Good. It's about time.

Before the 6th, everyone was just acting like far-right seditionists and accelerationists were bumbling fools LARPING around. After the 6th, it's become clear that the LARPs are actually serious. It's time we take them serious.

Does Parler have the right to exist on the internet? Yeah. But it doesn't have a right to use other peoples' infrastructure to exist.

AWS was complicit until now. There's still work to be done regarding what AWS enables, but there's one less thing AWS is complicit in.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#943

Post by ModernMech »

jp57 wrote: post #675

I'm distressed and saddened at how many of the free speech proponents on HN are treating the events of January 6 as if it was just another protest and not an existential threat to the republic. The president's followers said for weeks that "the storm" was coming Jan 6. Nobody took them seriously. Look what happened. The president and his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and other followers incited it. Yes the execution of the…

> If the mob had managed to find and destroy the electoral certificates

You have a lot of replies so sorry if someone else said this, but this wouldn't have been much of a big deal. There are 6 copies of the electoral certificates: one sent to the VP, one sent to the SOS, 2 sent to a federal judge from the state, and 2 sent to a US archivist. I don't know which copies they were using on 1/6. Maybe the VP's? But if they destroyed them, we have others.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#944

Post by timeon »

mikaeluman wrote: post #809

I’ve said it before: I find this highly disturbing. Especially the sense in which it is coordinated. Amazon, Google and Apple acting together to shut down a platform that has been very clear about its stance on content moderation from the outset. Free speech is not just any value. Sooner or later you will find yourself on the side of an issue where your speech will be attacked. Then there is the always present double…

Imagine there are countries in developed world where there is no unlimited free speech. Where Nazism is banned. And yet rarely anyone will find himself 'on the other side of the double standard'. It is even rare for proper neo-nazis.

Free speech is just utopia.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#947

Post by ed25519FUUU »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #942

As an AWS employee: Good. It's about time. Before the 6th, everyone was just acting like far-right seditionists and accelerationists were bumbling fools LARPING around. After the 6th, it's become clear that the LARPs are actually serious. It's time we take them serious. Does Parler have the right to exist on the internet? Yeah. But it doesn't have a right to use other peoples' infrastructure to exist. AWS was complic…

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts regarding antifa’s actions in Portland and the BLM protests earlier in the year? Would you have any problem with AWS hosting their services and helping them organize?

I’m asking this question in good faith because I’m having a hard time separating the protest on Jan 6th from basically any other protest I saw last summer, including in DC.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#948

Post by enriquec »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #942

As an AWS employee: Good. It's about time. Before the 6th, everyone was just acting like far-right seditionists and accelerationists were bumbling fools LARPING around. After the 6th, it's become clear that the LARPs are actually serious. It's time we take them serious. Does Parler have the right to exist on the internet? Yeah. But it doesn't have a right to use other peoples' infrastructure to exist. AWS was complic…

Well, you've just lost me as a customer for life. I had no horse in the game and condemn the violence on both sides - I just value free speech. I hope to see this censorship punished by the market and reflected in Amazon's stock price as well. I'm not a big fish but I'll take my couple thousand/mo elsewhere.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#949

Post by nprateem »

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

Free speech used to be fine because people used to be exposed to alternative opinions. Now people get put into bubbles by algorithms which show them more of what they want, rather than giving them a healthy diet of diverse opinions. Without that, some people can be easily led to believe any old propaganda and radicalised. The check on extremism has fallen off thanks to personalisation creating echo chambers.

For that reason, a P2P Twitter-type platform where accounts couldn't be removed would be potentially very dangerous.

I would rather try to deal with free speech by looking at personalisation and filter bubbles, perhaps mandating some kind of diversity gets baked into algorithms, which seems to lie at the root of the issue (that and economic inequality).

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#950

Post by ashtonkem »

jturpin wrote: post #802
ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

I have not yet concluded whether I believe in free speech without limits, but I can at least say with confidence the following: - Freedom of speech is of extremely high importance for any free society and should not be taken for granted - Removing it in any capacity should be done with extreme care and free of any bias one way or another, with a lot of thought put into any future consequences - Speech without a platf…

> Private companies' interest should have little, if any, control over the ability of the public to speak

This is the back door to authoritarianism. This basic premise would allow the government to reach in and force companies to associate against their will. This power will be abused.

> Speech without a platform isn't speech at all

This is utter nonsense. By this logic, speech without access to a bullhorn or an editorial board isn’t speech at all.

You have a right to speak without being prosecuted by the government. Pretending that you have a right to a Twitter account or an equivalent thereof is both silly, it’s incredibly entitled.

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