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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#941

Post by thirdsun »

tonfreed wrote: post #904
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

Of course it's not that one-sided. Let's not forget that the same technology that provides a safe haven for toaster fuckers also enables people with more sane, progressive yet equally niche ideas to find like-minded peers and escape the problematic offline environments and tribalism they may have been brought up in.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#942

Post by missedthecue »

croes wrote: post #926
tonfreed wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

So it's not the internet but social networks.

Theres not really a difference.

In 1995 it was a Usenet newsgroup, in 2005 it was a vBulletin forum, today it's a Twitter or Facebook community, tomorrow, it will be something else.

Facebook and Twitter get tons of hate because they make money hand over fist and founders/insiders become richer than god, (unlike Usenet or forum sites) but the internet has always been this way.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#943

Post by titzer »

kharms wrote: post #509

Millions marched for women's rights, millions marched for gay rights, millions marched for voters rights, millions marched for democracy. Now this desperate man called for protest, and what did he get? Thousands. It's a tough moment for our nation, but I am reassured. First the people, then the courts, then the states, now congress and the Vice President have all repudiated Trump's dictatorial aspirations.

Until there are actual consequences, people will just keep trying.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#944

Post by proggy »

officialjunk wrote: post #938
tonfreed wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

other countries also have internet access. the impact on them doesn't appear to be the same. why is that?

I dunno. The UK got whipped into an online frenzy prior to the Brexit vote. Notably, there was possible Russian interference during that campaign on Twitter, similar to the US [1]. And Bolsonaro got elected in Brazil, largely due to manipulation on WhatsApp. Roughly 47% of the country uses WhatsApp, and of the top fifty images circulating at the time of the election, only four were real [2].

Social media has proven itself to have massive impact on the zeitgeist, and it has been weaponized the world over to serve the interests of those willing to manipulate others in order to further their own (often misanthropic) goals.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/14/how-400-russia...

[2] https://www.cfr.org/blog/whatsapps-influence-brazilian-elect...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#945

Post by unityByFreedom »

bcherny wrote: post #639
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I just finished Lippmann’s 1922 classic Public Opinion. In it he argues that different people may draw completely different conclusions from the same facts due to three things: 1. Sampling. There’s a big universe of facts, and each media outlet reports on a tiny piece of this universe. 2. Stereotypes. When you read a news story, you unconsciously pattern match and associate it to related examples you have in your min…

> #4: fake news. This amplifies #1 significantly. It was less of a problem in Lippmann’s time since the News world was much smaller. He might have called this “rumor”, not news.

He called it propaganda and it was a big problem during his time.

> Without some form of censorship, propaganda in the strict sense of the word is impossible. In order to conduct a propaganda there must be some barrier between the public and the event. Access to the real environment must be limited, before anyone can create a pseudo-environment that he thinks wise or desirable. For while people who have direct access can misconceive what they see, no one else can decide how they shall misconceive it, unless he can decide where they shall look, and at what. The military censorship is the simplest form of barrier, but by no means the most important, because it is known to exist, and is therefore in certain measure agreed to and discounted.

IMO we got here because social media allows people to run from one form of censorship straight into the arms of another without realizing they're still being censored. The same thing happened in Lippmann's time. People did not realize their circles were excluding information. The result was a couple periods of very-difficult-to-reconcile division.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#946

Post by eecc »

tonfreed wrote: post #904
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

You had me until the Che, I didn’t get that reference. What’s that?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#947

Post by rewgs »

thirdsun wrote: post #941
tonfreed wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

Of course it's not that one-sided. Let's not forget that the same technology that provides a safe haven for toaster fuckers also enables people with more sane, progressive yet equally niche ideas to find like-minded peers and escape the problematic offline environments and tribalism they may have been brought up in.

Sure, it's a double-edged sword, but that doesn't mean the comment you're replying to is wrong.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#948

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/peter-turchin-how-elite-ove...

I think the internet is only being used as a tool; Peter Turchin says its overproduction of the elites, too many lawyers and managers chasing too few positions leads them to fight more vigorously over a limited turf. It's turf wars gone bitter.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#949

Post by peter_d_sherman »

toomanyrichies wrote: post #761
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

To me it feels like a multi-step process, caused by a mix of our worst human tendencies: 1) People prefer news coverage which confirms their previously-held beliefs (aka confirmation bias). 2) News outlets are financially incentivized to deliver news which confirms whatever beliefs we may have, since if we don't then viewers will change the channel. This causes news outlets to balkanize along various points on the po…

1950: The Media is news, and Politicians are political.

2020: Politicians are news, and the Media is political.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#950

Post by 8note »

eecc wrote: post #946
tonfreed wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

You had me until the Che, I didn’t get that reference. What’s that?

People on the right think very poorly of Che Guevara with not very strong evidence, so they make fun of people who wear shirts with his face on them
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