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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

wsj.com

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#941

Post by president »

tomcat27 wrote: post #931

Most of the work these companies are hired to produce is done in India. People on H1B are few and hired to delegate across time zones. It's hard without someone in the US connecting the bridge. This pandemic made it clear. It's a possibility that this new policy has very little implication on the overall budget of projects.. unless the companies are financially strong enough to hire local employees at a high salary.…

Have you considered that the US workers are also hurting in this pandemic? At some point people need to start thinking about helping out the productive class in this country instead of just the business owners and CEOs who are pocketing the savings from labor arbitrage.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#942

Post by [deleted] »

sisama wrote: post #664

I estimated the new prevailing wages for NYC/SF/SEA using z-scores and the new %-iles. For NYC: (I II III IV) = (116,003 137,323 160,321 203,405) For SF: (I II III IV) = (138,283 162,157 187,910 236,155) For SEA: (I II III IV) = (128,082 148,708 170,957 212,639) The level for an applicant is determined by their education + experience. Level I is supposed to correspond to an entry-level role requiring specialized skil…

[deleted]

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#943

Post by president »

tequila_shot wrote: post #657
jedberg wrote: post #9

Credit where credit is due, this is a good move. The H1B program has been abused for a long time. It sounds like these changes should help make it too expensive for the fraudulent abuse to continue.

Why is this on the top of the hacker news? The article talks about nothing that will stop the abuse. There are indeed a lot of RFEs that are being given out if you don't have a CS degree and apply for a Software Developer position already. The Pay structure that the article mentions is NOT true anymore. Take a look at the links[1], it's withdrawn and the rule is not valid. How is hiring folks with a CS degree for an…

> There is no evidence that folks on H1B visa compete with a US Citizen's job.

If an IT department puts out a req and fills it with an H1-B worker, a US worker is out of a job. It's really that simple. People like to respond to this and cite sources funded by H1-B consultancies about how H1-B create more economic opportunities which translates into more jobs for all but this doesn't make sense because companies will A) pocket the savings and B) continue to hire H1-Bs to keep on saving per headcount. The reality is that jobs are a zero-sum game. I welcome your response if you have a counter-point.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#944

Post by DenisM »

magtux wrote: post #836
DenisM wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely recall that the "indentured" h1b workers (as oppose to the "proper" h1b like I had) owe money back to home, and that debt becomes instantly due if they bail out. If they were super-stars they would be able to cover it from the Amazon signup bonus (and become indentured to Amazon - your signup bonus is due back if you bail out early). However superstars rarely end up in those jobs. We're looking at people wi…

This is just pure xenophobic drivel. There are people of different levels of talent in a large population set. Your characterization speaks more to your attitude than the millions of people that you malign.

You're arguing with something I didn't say.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#945

Post by notJim »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #455
notJim wrote: post #94

I feel like rather than pitting immigrants against native born workers, and trying to come up with the perfect arcane rule, we should have sectoral bargaining where the workers could negotiate pay standards directly with their employers. Then it wouldn't matter where someone is from, because they'd be covered by that contract, and the government could get out of the way of the labor market.

What is this even supposed to mean? We already have bargaining between workers and employees. When you have a larger labor pool, market forces will obviously shift the market towards lower wages in the absence of government intervention. People who oppose H1B oppose it because they think that foreign workers should not be allowed to enter the labor pool thereby depressing the wages.

I'm referring to sectoral bargaining where workers negotiate sector wide for things like wages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_collective_bargaining. I was thinking of how Nordic countries don't have minimum wages because the unions prefer to negotiate directly with the employers.

The bargaining you refer to is between an individual employee and an employer, where the employer obviously has drastically more power, particularly in the case of immigrants on visas. Even having a single-company union would be beneficial, but the problematic companies here would just be non-union shops.

The point of sectoral bargaining is exactly what the H1B system is trying to accomplish, where you establish wage guidelines for the whole sector to prevent companies from undercutting wages with immigration. Except that because the government has to make this one-size-fits-all rule, and doesn't understand the specific needs of each sector, it's hard to come up with the right rule. Under sectoral bargaining, each sector could determine its own needs and goals, and because companies and employees each have representatives, the end result is fairer for all.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#946

Post by notJim »

sudosteph wrote: post #471
notJim wrote: post #94

I feel like rather than pitting immigrants against native born workers, and trying to come up with the perfect arcane rule, we should have sectoral bargaining where the workers could negotiate pay standards directly with their employers. Then it wouldn't matter where someone is from, because they'd be covered by that contract, and the government could get out of the way of the labor market.

_Stop trying to make syndicalism happen! It's not going to happen._ But seriously, I love the theories behind systems like that, but practically it's not something like that will hold in the US any time soon. Unions are still a hard sell to most folks. And that's exactly what you need to make that happen. Semi-related: the effects that cheap H1Bs and H1B subcontractors might have on unionization efforts sounds like a…

Since this seems like something you're interested in, check out my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24711219

I agree none of this is likely, but we can make the world whatever we want, so let's start thinking about it :)

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#947

Post by president »

3pt14159 wrote: post #206

There is a lot of political science research that speaks to growing xenophobia when immigration is unleashed. I understand the sentiment—I'm very pro-immigration—but with respect to domestic policy my primary goal is stability and faith in government. Personally, I like how my country, Canada, does it. Points based system that rewards multiple factors, including skills, employability, and fluency in English and Frenc…

> There is a lot of political science research that speaks to growing xenophobia when immigration is unleashed.

From my experience these days, many statements or positions are deemed xenophobic or racist when they are actually not. Even your example of the Canadian immigration requirements could be deemed xenophobic or racist towards foreigners that don't speak English. Then there are the "open borders" people that believe countries should hand out visas willy-nilly to everyone that wants one and that any opposition to that idea is xenophobic and racist. Do you think that is warranted?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#948

Post by tracker1 »

jedberg wrote: post #9

Credit where credit is due, this is a good move. The H1B program has been abused for a long time. It sounds like these changes should help make it too expensive for the fraudulent abuse to continue.

Agreed... been saying for a long time, there should be a pay floor of 8-10x minimum wage for H1B workers. These are supposed to be for positions we cannot fill locally, there's no reason they shouldn't be 6-figure jobs at a minimum.

I really don't like his personality, but really do appreciate a lot of the things Trump does in practice.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#949

Post by zerr »

lonesword wrote: post #795
zerr wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all the doors should open for the person with a rich family background, while the poor one should stay in poverty?

What about an Indian student who did a masters from ETH/EPFL, interned at CERN, and _then_ applied for an H1B visa? Will it mean that the said student is from a "rich family background"?

Background or not, he/she would certainly enjoy much better quality of life compared to the above mentioned profile in India.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#950

Post by htrp »

jedberg wrote: post #95
jopsen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will an executive order (which I assume this is) actually make any difference? Doesn't it take an act of congress to make any serious headway here? Personally, I was an H1B a 4.5 years before Trump convinced it was time to leave. I was in the bay area and handsomely overpaid. I have no personal experience of it being abused, but I'm obviously privileged, having worked at reputable tech companies and coming from reaso…

This is a rule in the Federal Register. So it's basically like law. It's essentially how the executive is interpreting the laws that congress has passed. There is a rule that says a new President can automatically overturn all rules made in the last 90 days of the previous administration, but we're before that deadline, so this is pretty much a done deal. If the next admin wanted to change this, they have to go throu…

Can you cite a source for this (or what it's called so I can google it?)
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