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New 13-inch MacBook Pro

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Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#941

Post by unethical_ban »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #733
MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

The "real" Escape key is essential. I'm using a new 16" MBP at work and it's quite nice, but without the real Escape key I'd probably be cursing the computer every day. I thought I'd hate the touchbar, but I actually thought it was cute -- for about an hour. Then I realized it was just a useless gimmick and reset it to "Expanded Control Strip" which is Apple's euphemism for "Make the touchbar look and act just like t…

The touchbar is not useless - that is an opinion I do not share.

I do not use the Fn keys in MacOS - and having media controls, screen lock, and other data in the touchbar makes more sense for me. It was and is an experiment in user behavior and UI. Some like it, some don't. I'm not committed to it, but I don't want the HN bubble to think their "bad touchbar" is the only opinion.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#942

Post by dhosek »

mellavora wrote: post #772
chrischen wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real Vi/emac users don’t use the esc key. It’s way too far frome home row.

Right! Real vi users have a foot pedal for escape. :__) *yes, fingers pointing at me

When I first started using Emacs, I used to joke that with all the various modifiers and prefix keys for escapes that it was just a generation away from needing foot pedals.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#943

Post by projektfu »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #934
derefr wrote: post #865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the keyboards vi was designed for, Escape was positioned where the Caps Lock key is now on modern US-101 keyboards. May as well just map it there.

I'm puzzled by this claim. The keyboard for the ADM-3A shows a Ctrl key to the left of A. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A#Hardware The VT100 shows CAPS LOCK to the left of A. https://vt100.net/docs/vt100-ug/chapter1.html#S1.1 So on which visual terminal was ESC to the left of A? Or are you perhaps referring to ex, an antecedent of vi, which was designed for hardcopy terminals? If so, which hardcopy terminal had…

You’re right. Next to Q is correct, still more reachable than it is now. Now Tab is in that position and we’re used to that.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#944

Post by StillBored »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #767
anbop wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is most heavy computer users set themselves up with a proper ergonomic setup, i.e. external keyboard. And by not building the touch bar into external keyboards, they killed the entire concept of the Touch Bar, because any "pro" application has to assume that you may or may not have a touch bar and can't put essential functionality there. Which limits the Touch Bar to proper first-class support primarily i…

I guess the actual, underlying problem is, the Touchbar is bad UX for a bunch of software engineers, but pretty great for most everyone else. Think about it – you lose some keys you never really had a use for anyway except as media keys, and you get almost analogue-ish volume and brightness controls, apps can give you context-dependent options that are really discoverable (which F-keys totally aren't) and can adapt t…

The problem with function keys vs touchbar could have been fixed by embedding a small lcd in each key, or in a border above them. Its not like mac's have a shortage of vertical keyboard space given how much they waste on the trackpad.

That way you keep people happy who aren't looking down at the keys, and you give new users/etc nice graphics to help describe what the buttons do.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#945

Post by pfranz »

cactus2093 wrote: post #336
alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

Genuinely curious, have you had your MacBook Pro knocked over from the power cord since switching away from MagSafe? Lots of people complain about missing MagSafe but I’ve never seen or heard of this actually happening. I’m sure it has happened but it just doesn’t seem like a big problem. For me, just in the past month I’ve had the usb charger yanked out by the cord multiple times by people and pets tripping over it…

I haven't had an incident yet, but I'm way more careful with a young kid (or myself). Leaving one charging on a couch, for example, isn't something I'm comfortable with both because of it sliding a foot or two on to the carpet or bending the connector.

More annoyance comes from removing of the charging indicators that were on the magsafe port. The only clue is a small "ding" sound when it starts charging, but is easy to miss and won't happen in deep sleep. I've plugged in a laptop not noticing someone had unplugged the other end until the next morning my computer was still dead. It was also nice that you could see that amber charging light turn green so you knew it was charged without opening the lid and waking it up.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#946

Post by pfranz »

Twirrim wrote: post #771
alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

> I still miss mag-safe adapters though. I still don't understand that decision. I really dislike the mag-safe adapter on my 2015 Mac (the first Mac I've ever had). It often feels like you only have to sneeze in the direction of the connector and it pops right off. I get the problem they're trying to solve, I too don't want to go back to the old style of connector where you could accidentally rip it out of the mother…

I'm guessing you have MagSafe2. I only had MagSafe1 laptops and thought they were great. I might be mistaken, but I thought I had heard of Apple tweaking the magnets on different models.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe#MagSafe_2

I believe the Surface have their version of MagSafe and support charging via USB-C...I wish that was the direction Apple went with.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#947

Post by TheRealPomax »

dkonofalski wrote: post #824
TheRealPomax wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, literally any app where `esc` is the "cancel and exit this dialog" key. Which is every Adobe application, all DAWs, etc. etc.

I don't see how that's a negative. The Touch Bar still has an ESC segment that works exactly the same as the button and literally no one in any of the companies that I've worked with that's not a developer has ever had an issue with it while simultaneously finding the Touch Bar far more useful than unlabelled function keys.

Except it doesn't, because there is no esc key. There's a portion of a touch sensitive monitor that may, or may not, have an active region that simulates an esc key, which you won't know without looking at it, rather than being able to rely on the fact that there's a key in the upper left that you can feel for without ever looking at your keyboard, in the knowledge that it always sends the one key code it has to.

If this has never been a problem for you: nice! But it's been so much of a problem for everyone else, and they've spoke up about this so much, that Apple undid that decision.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#948

Post by TheRealPomax »

saagarjha wrote: post #893
TheRealPomax wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, literally any app where `esc` is the "cancel and exit this dialog" key. Which is every Adobe application, all DAWs, etc. etc.

Actually, that behavior is baked into the OS.

That doesn't bear any relevance to application UI frameworks that don't build on top of the OS's UI framework.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#949

Post by dirkt »

MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

I remapped the key on the upper left, where ESC should be, to ESC. Well, it's now to the left of the number row, but I've used keyboards where it was in that place. So muscle memory works fine for that.

The keys that are there (caret and circle) get some other place, which works fine for me, because I am used to having those somewhere else in the first place.

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