James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google • Hacker News Board

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#941

Post by s73ver_ » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

Idontknowmyuser wrote: post #778

s73ver_ wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But now you're getting into the "free speech for me, not for thee" part. You're basically saying that Damore is entitled to free speech and protection, but that Google and his former co-workers are not. Remember, who you work with is part of the freedom of association which is a component of free speech.

This is a strawman I'm very hard pressed to find anyone in HN at least who would deny Goolgle's right or another other party's right of writing a rebuttal to his claims. A free and open internal debate is exactly what Damore was trying to start. Firing to me at least is not speech, it's an inherently violent act.

It's not a strawman if plenty of people in this comment section are making the exact argument. And if I can't fire an employee for being hostile to my other employees, then I do not have freedom of association.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#942

Post by Idontknowmyuser » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #903

Idontknowmyuser wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

another study supports this claim: "The trial found assigning a male name to a candidate made them 3.2 per cent less likely to get a job interview." "Adding a woman's name to a CV made the candidate 2.9 per cent more likely to get a foot in the door." source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-tria...

“We built our castle 300 miles away from where they live, but if any of them make it here we are 3% more likely to let them in the door. The men live in a village 1000 yards away, but we’re 3% less likely to let one in, so it’s fair.”

do you have any proof of this claims? and if they were true how and in what you way would this matter if we were to compare one individual to one individual instead of treating people like herds.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#943

Post by ntuch » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 11:06 PM UTC

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #619

MBCook wrote: post #139

I hope he finds some right-wing outlet to hire him, because at this point it seems like he’s radioactive waste and no real company is going to hire him ever again.

Kind to have to be a right wing organization he is not working along side of women. You do have to think of everyone on your team including the women.

> not working along side of women Women able to read and comprehend at high school level would have no problem working along side him.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#944

Post by ryguytilidie » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 11:12 PM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #783

ryguytilidie wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, Joe Rogan is considered a right wing youtuber? I listen to his show all the time and I'm a pretty big liberal and while he sometimes does the whole "everyone is sooooo PC now" thing, he also talks negatively about Trump, the GOP and right wing politics constantly. I also listened to the James Damore episode, and while I thought James did a good job of making his point and Joe did an AWESOME job of interviewing…

So was he disingenuous, or did he lack understanding? Pick one.

Are you operating under the belief that humans can only assign a single emotion to another...?

I said that he was a bit disingenous about some thing and then said that he "lacked understanding about...", yet, sure, cut that off, rip out the context in the interest of being snarky to a complete stranger. Why not?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#945

Post by nailer » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 11:24 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #934

lurr wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All three of them are solidly classical liberal, which is probably right of center today Classical liberal just seems like yet another rebranding by people who don't want to just call themselves conservatives. I've yet to hear a "classical liberal" who doesn't seem like yet another libertarian/conservative.

I've consistenly voted Labour / Labor for all my life, and my poliics haven't changed. I still believe in looking after the elderly, children and the ill, and negotation. I loved Milliband. But the left (at least Labour in the UK) has been siezed by a hard left group called Momentum, that supports far-left political violence, is often openly hostile to people based on skin color and gender. Classical liberals haven't…

Small edit: "and negotation" should be "and collective negotation"

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#946

Post by novia » Tue, Jan 09, 2018, 11:55 PM UTC

Idontknowmyuser wrote: post #769

I feel like this study published in july 2017 is very relevant: "Sex differences in brain size and general intelligence (g)" link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616... Abstract Utilizing MRI and cognitive tests data from the Human Connectome project (N = 900), sex differences in general intelligence (g) and molar brain characteristics were examined. Total brain volume, cortical surface area…

Do we really need to rehash the whole phrenology period of our history?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#947

Post by manfredo » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

chillacy wrote: post #938

manfredo wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citing peer-reviewed research about gender differences is not even remotely equivalent to openly brandishing explosives in an office.

Yes, but both result in a failure to manage one's emotions. The implication I think you're making is that if others are insulting you, you should control your emotions, if others are physically threatening you, it's understandable if you fear for your life. But the biological reality is that both produce amygdala responses and strong emotions. Also, calling it "citing peer-reviewed research" is sort of missing the po…

> peer-reviewed research" is sort of missing the point. How about "politely and scientifically insinuating that some of my co-workers wouldn't be working here if it weren't for social programs at the company" which can be taken for insult.

The author did no such thing - at least not without the caveat that their rejection would have been a false negative, which negates any implications about these co-workers abilities. And taking steps to reduce the false negative rate for diverse candidates is a pretty standard practice in bay area, see this past comment of mine for an example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14953762

Other commenters have chimed in saying Google has similar policies, and the company openly states on their careers page that they're an affirmative action employer. If making a factually correct statement about the company's hiring practices is an insult, then it'd be prudent to rethink those practices.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#948

Post by tomji » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 1:08 AM UTC

novia wrote: post #946

Idontknowmyuser wrote: post #769

I feel like this study published in july 2017 is very relevant: "Sex differences in brain size and general intelligence (g)" link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616... Abstract Utilizing MRI and cognitive tests data from the Human Connectome project (N = 900), sex differences in general intelligence (g) and molar brain characteristics were examined. Total brain volume, cortical surface area…

Do we really need to rehash the whole phrenology period of our history?

equally so transistor counts in CPU's don't matter. My Pentium MX is just as fast as the latest chips and doesn't have any of this speculative execution madness! In fact CPU speeds cannot be measured at all. My CPU is differently fast.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#949

Post by manfredo » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

notfromhere wrote: post #907

manfredo wrote: post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Damore's firing was more due to 1. The memo being leaked. 2. After being leaked, misrepresentations and even outright falsehoods about the memo being promulgated online. Remember, the memo was being circulated within google for a month before his firing. This suggests that Google did not see the need to take punitive action against Damore due to the memo, but rather that it was the reception of the memo by th…

I don't need to work at Google to know that circulating a memo at work about how your female coworkers are less qualified because of genetic factors is a stupid idea.

This statement was never made in the memo. The notion that it was stems largely due to point #2 in my comment above.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#950

Post by chillacy » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 2:03 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #947

chillacy wrote: post #938

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but both result in a failure to manage one's emotions. The implication I think you're making is that if others are insulting you, you should control your emotions, if others are physically threatening you, it's understandable if you fear for your life. But the biological reality is that both produce amygdala responses and strong emotions. Also, calling it "citing peer-reviewed research" is sort of missing the po…

> peer-reviewed research" is sort of missing the point. How about "politely and scientifically insinuating that some of my co-workers wouldn't be working here if it weren't for social programs at the company" which can be taken for insult. The author did no such thing - at least not without the caveat that their rejection would have been a false negative, which negates any implications about these co-workers abilitie…

Yet the author's memo was not taken very well. People aren't rational, the media is a page click machine, and all nuance is ultimately boiled down to a headline. What should we expect, that people are perfectly rational spheres?

I'm aware this line of thinking is like "blaming the victim" for non-neurotypical people who don't know where the line is. It's not a great situation all around.