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If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

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Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#931

Post by james_marks »

y0eswddl wrote: post #729
james_marks wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At almost 50, I feel like there has been a cultural shift since I was a kid. It isn’t enough to be middle class, to have the proverbial white picket fence. The reach now is for glamor and wealth, which is by definition out of reach for the majority. If that’s the ideal you compare your own life to, you will be unhappy. And the debt, etc you take on to mimic it will make you even more unhappy. The shift was already ha…

I'd argue most people do not, in fact, year for glamor and wealth. The majority of us just want to be able to live

I want to be clear that I'm not judging anyone, just observing the zeitgeist.

Does just being able to live mean getting a new phone occasionally? Getting a coffee/treat once a week? A job that doesn't leave you in physical pain, sometimes permanently?

Happiness is the gap between expectation and reality. Our expectations are very high without sounding unreasonable.

This is the shift I'm talking about– maybe we don't conciously yearn for glamor and wealth, but what we see as normal is a luxury lifestyle compared to previous generations.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#932

Post by thinkingtoilet »

mothballed wrote: post #365
pelasaco wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do feel this trend in my life. I have a job which I'm grateful for but nothing feels satisfying anymore, and I feel like it is much harder to connect to people or form deep relationships, especially in this field, unless you already have a clique in your workplace. do you have kids? Family? That is the ancient receipt for a great and happy life.

If you're already happy you should think carefully about having kids though. I was extremely, extremely satisfied with my life before children. My kid is wonderful and healthy but as an introvert I didn't realize just how crushing it is to never get an extended period alone to recharge.

Thank you for speaking honestly about children. I struggle with fatherhood as well and it's one my life goals to have these honest conversations. I genuinely believe the majority of people really like it, but there is a sizable minority that never speaks out.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#933

Post by fakedang »

pgalvin wrote: post #536
fakedang wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still don't expect people to go hungry in a first world developed country. Nor did people go hungry or homeless at this scale before in recent American, British or even broadly Western history. Yet here we are, and the UK is no exception either. At least you can be guaranteed for certain you won't be going hungry in Istanbul, Warsaw or Amman.

I disagree with the claim that a greater proportion of people go hungry, and more are homeless, today than at any point in recent western history. These have broadly been on a downwards trend over the last century. Of course many do struggle, and that should not be dismissed by pointing to the past. But it nonetheless strikes me as naive to believe that people today are hungrier than at any point in recent history -…

Recent Western history, 70s to early 00s. I doubt many people were going hungry in the US and UK back then, as much as they are now.

The obesity crisis is in part because of the unavailability of nutritious food and the proliferation of cheap junk masquerading as food. But even that is getting expensive these days. Actual food prices have been going on an uptick since the 00s.

I will make my stand on the fact that more people lived better during the 90s in the West than now.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#934

Post by nyeah »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #394
nyeah wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say. They're much cheaper per pound than ground beef here in the Northeast.

Shouldn’t protein be expected to be more expensive?

I dunno. If people eat hamburger on a bun, we approve. If they eat avocado on toast, we disapprove. That's a luxury item. Ok.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#935

Post by cpburns2009 »

nsxwolf wrote: post #159
comrade1234 wrote: post #6

I feel like wealthy americans live like poor Europeans - they live far outside the city in crowded suburbs, no amenities walking distance so they have to drive everywhere, having to commute an hour to their job, eating bad manufactured food... I'm American but moved to Europe years ago. It may be even better being poor here because at least you might live in a village and you'll have healthcare and your government wo…

Counterpoint, suburbs are awesome. Can’t wait to watch all my fruit trees about to bloom.

My pink crabapple is developing beautiful buds this year. Last year there was a windstorm that blew off all the flowers right before it reached full bloom.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#936

Post by testing22321 »

alex43578 wrote: post #912
testing22321 wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything has been stripped of its meaning. A friend j got the epic ski pass, so he skied at 43 resorts this winter with his wife and kid all across the US. From Baltimore to Tahoe through about 25 states. I thought it would be awesome, he said it was shit. Because one corporation owns all of it, they’re all identical. Same signs, same food, same rules. No adventure, nothing new at each resort . Giant monoculture.…

Are you skiing for the signs or for the mountains, the views, and the experience?

The whole experience.

And it was boring monoculture

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#937

Post by naishoya »

Here is pretty much the full rebuttal to the "It really is better, but everyone is whining" points of view:

https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie title: "Part 1: My Life Is a Lie" byline: "How a Broken Benchmark Quietly Broke America"

TLDR; it does actually take well over 100k for a family of four in the US to not be at significant risk of becoming de-housed and the 'poverty line' that everyone points to has not been adjusted to account for the actual erosion of public standard services since the late 1960's and does not take into account the actual costs of many significantly inflated market conditions; including housing, food security, basic transportation, and communication.

Bottom line, the answer to the original questions is: America is not rich, has not been for quite some time, and everyone is sad because the reality is in serious contrast to the image which the wealthy and powerful are very effective at projecting both inside the US and abroad. That image is every bit as disconnected from reality as every other fictional product of the US entertainment industry.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#938

Post by Jcowell »

jjav wrote: post #896
HDBaseT wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home "ownership" is misleading. You don't own a home until you've paid it off. Younger people are getting into more debt, for much longer in order to be able to survive. When we start comparing the numbers (i.e, house paid off, even reflected as a percentage paid off, relative to age) the numbers reveal the real crisis. Anecdotally, I know tons of 20-30 year olds getting into the property market (with insane levels o…

> You don't own a home until you've paid it off. That's not quite true. If you want to think that way, then you'd never own it because you'll always pay property taxes so the paying never stops. But as soon as you buy a home it is your asset. Yes, you have a debt against it. But you are the owner. Go look up the owner in the county records and it is you.

We both know the pay off in this instance is referring to mortgages

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#939

Post by qsera »

lpcvoid wrote: post #354
qsera wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>non-scientific worldview, brainwashing This can be good, you know. I mean that was the original purpose of religion. The idea is that everyone will be good if they are afraid of judgement day. But science came along and took that away. But science (or should I say naive "scientists") did not substitute it with something that works as well. Not even close. It didn't even try.

>This can be good, you know No, it's not. Non-factual, non-evidence based worldview is part of the problem humanity has right now in the post-fact era. >The idea is that everyone will be good if they are afraid of judgement day I reject the notion that people can be good just because they are afraid of some powerful entity judging them. People are good because it's the right and rational thing to do. If they aren't g…

> right and rational

Even you seem to agree that there is a notion of a "right" thing.

A "Rational" action can totally depend on what you want to achieve. And also considering the fact that "rationality" is not equally distributed among the people, it follows that there need to be some kind of gospel that needs to be followed so that everyone will do things that are collectively beneficial...

>It's not the job of science..

Isn't the ultimate goal of science the betterment of human condition? If you agree that, I think it is indeed the job of science to suggest a proper replacement for the stuff it is overthrowing...

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#940

Post by NoGravitas »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #793
eBombzor wrote: post #72

I do feel this trend in my life. I have a job which I'm grateful for but nothing feels satisfying anymore, and I feel like it is much harder to connect to people or form deep relationships, especially in this field, unless you already have a clique in your workplace. On top of that, AI is generally a demotivating entity to the majority of people. Despite all the hype of Altman and whonots, I feel like people just don…

Children would change that, instantly. I wasn't a father until late in life and then all of a sudden, everything is easy. The moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep, every moment has meaning and purpose. Nothing, no meal, no evening, no dollar is wasted. As my children grow - the only question is how long do I have until I have grandchildren. After that - how long until I no longer have skin in the game? I do f…

> I would not recommend avoiding the biological imperative. Reproduce. Everything else after that moment is clarity.

I'd like to point out that experience is far from universal. Parenting beyond "feed and shelter them" is a minefield of ambiguity and conflicting evidence.

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