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Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

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Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#931

Post by kittikitti »

An important distinction I feel is often left out of the conversation of regulating AI generated content are the psychological effects of negative or positive consequences or reinforcement.

I think we are overwhelmingly utilizing negative reinforcement for AI generated content; where there are consequences for engaging in this behavior. On the other hand, positive reinforcement would encourage authenticity and greater human content. The reality of the situation is that AI generated content won't go away and it's become a game of who can hide their artificial content the best. Thus, I believe that positive reinforcement is the solution.

I think we must instead encourage human created content instead of policing AI generation. There are so many rules to follow already that by the time I create the content, I've gone through enough if/then logic that it feels like AI anyway.

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#932

Post by wittjeff »

dang wrote: post #755
uni_baconcat wrote: post #754

For quite a while, I like use LLM to refine and fix my grammar issue, but my colleagues and professors reminds me that it was way too obvious. They said they can tolerate some mistakes in my words, but no tolerance for AI generated content.

Thanks for putting this so nicely! We'd much rather hear you in your own voice, and the cost of a few mistakes is far less than the cost of losing that. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Let me refer you to my buddy Anton, a software developer in Ukraine. He has CP and it makes typing and communicating by speech very slow and tedious. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aYbDLOK14uM

He has a blog, which I think is particularly relevant to this conversation: https://www.patreon.com/c/GreenWizard/posts?vanity=GreenWiza...

IMO his writing style is quite melodramatic. I have asked myself, how much of that is his perhaps overly compensatory tendency to project an articulate voice, and how much of it is applied by his AI tools?

The last time I saw Anton in person I asked him about his writing process, and he said something like, "I just draft it and then ask ChatGPT to make it sound professional or whatever." So after thinking about it for a while, I have decided that this is his preferred voice, so I'll accept it as his voice.

IMO it is not for you to decide how people recast their own voice. Once you adopt that dogma, you're committed to denying other people's experience of discrimination (through the lens of disability's symptoms). Whether or not you participate in that other type of biased discrimination is irrelevant.

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#933

Post by i_am_a_peasant »

dang wrote: post #755
uni_baconcat wrote: post #754

For quite a while, I like use LLM to refine and fix my grammar issue, but my colleagues and professors reminds me that it was way too obvious. They said they can tolerate some mistakes in my words, but no tolerance for AI generated content.

Thanks for putting this so nicely! We'd much rather hear you in your own voice, and the cost of a few mistakes is far less than the cost of losing that. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

I had a team lead at work be offended by something pretty neutral that i said and explicitly asked me to always use chatgpt when i talk with him lol

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#934

Post by CWuestefeld »

dang wrote: post #755
uni_baconcat wrote: post #754

For quite a while, I like use LLM to refine and fix my grammar issue, but my colleagues and professors reminds me that it was way too obvious. They said they can tolerate some mistakes in my words, but no tolerance for AI generated content.

Thanks for putting this so nicely! We'd much rather hear you in your own voice, and the cost of a few mistakes is far less than the cost of losing that. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

At the margin this is fine. But ensuring that we really understand each other is the most important thing. Especially these days, when polarization is so intense and everyone seems to actively look for faults in what others (seem to) say.

When it's a matter of a spelling error or two, no problem. But too often I find I've got to read something multiple times before I have any idea what my interlocutor is saying.

Is our hatred of "AI Slop" and greater posting traffic worth handicapping our ability to communicate with each other?

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#935

Post by plewd »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #918

There's an element of cognitive dissonance to the community's response to AI that I find fascinating. Nearly unanimous rejection of AI-generated content while simultaneously breathlessly touting AI tooling in significantly more sensitive (and lets face it riskier) environments like the company codebase.

I think people care less about risk and more about human creativity & genuinity. Personally, I get disgusted when I see AI encroaching into artistic fields because I hope new technologies will be used to replace our monotonous work, not take away from authentic discussion/work.

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#936

Post by bennydog224 »

I personally enjoy the errors and oddities in syntax and dialect which tell me something definitively is > NOT written by AI and help me understand the author better in such an anonymous space.

The second is gonna be a lot harder to enforce, as we soon (and probably already) don't know who we're talking to on the internet - a real person or someone's agent? Will calling spaces "human only" later be seen as discriminatory by agents? How will we actually enforce "human only" spaces? Will websites like HN start to provide an "agent only" discussion forum or filter in addition to the "human only" sections?

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#937

Post by morpheuskafka »

dang wrote: post #386

The rule has been around for years, but only in case law, i.e. moderation comments ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). What's new is that we promoted it to the guidelines. Fortunately I found some things we could cut as well, so https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html actually got shorter. --- Edit: here are the bits I cut: Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pic…

I'm curious, just noticed there's no rule requiring comments to be in English, although I've never actually seen any other languages used here. Since the new directive is to write as best you can rather than use AI either to translate or edit, does that imply that one should write either all in another language or in a mix of English and another language? (The latter is especially relevant as many may either only know a technical term in one language, or know the terms in English but not the grammar to connect them.)

edit to add -- I completely agree with you that when one's English is "good enough," it's much better to read the original rather than an LLMs guess at how to polish it. It's just hard to define what that line is, especially for the poster themselves who has no idea what a native speaker can figure out. Would some posts be removed because they are too difficult to make sense of? Or would they be allowed in their native language?

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#939

Post by skipants »

calmoo wrote: post #782
uni_baconcat wrote: post #754

For quite a while, I like use LLM to refine and fix my grammar issue, but my colleagues and professors reminds me that it was way too obvious. They said they can tolerate some mistakes in my words, but no tolerance for AI generated content.

If you're referring to speaking in English - in general I think there is a huge amount of flexibility for making mistakes in English. I'm a native speaker, I am so used to hearing various levels of English from different nationalities that i'm almost blind to it. I much prefer to hear someones true voice even if there are a few inaccuracies, so much of a person's personality is conveyed through their quirks and mista…

Huh. I have the opposite opinion. I'm monolingual English for all intents and purposes but I gathered that opinion from quite a few sources, including:

- We had to take spelling tests in school

- English speakers make (generally light) fun of other's spelling or grammar mistakes in a casual setting

- In a professional setting, a lot of time is taken to proofread our own emails

- There's de jure spellings for every word

- Some online communities are really weird about pointing out grammar and spelling mistakes (namely Reddit)

Language is meant to be a fluid, evolving thing but I always felt like English was treated the opposite way. Maybe that's also why it's the de facto Lingua Franca.

I do think, and hope, that this rigidity will change thanks to AI. I've started to embrace my mistakes. I care a lot less about capitalization and punctuation in my Slack messages, for example.

Re: Don't post generated/AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans

#940

Post by Cthulhu_ »

alexjplant wrote: post #524
jedberg wrote: post #359

I'm absolutely 100% for this policy. My only caution is that good writers and LLMs look very similar, because LLMs were trained on a corpus of good writers. Good writers use semicolons and em-dashes. Sometimes we used bulleted lists or Oxford commas. So we should make sure to follow that other HN rule, and assume the person on the other end is a good faith actor, and be cautious about accusing someone of using AI. (I…

> Good writers use semicolons and em-dashes I use semicolons a lot. If this is the nouveau tell du jour for LLMs then I'm in trouble.

Oh shit I've been caught; I always use semicolons, I don't even know if they're appropriate or even gramatically correct. I just think they're neat.
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