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IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

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Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#931

Post by naasking »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #927
naasking wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wildly one-sided and basically incorrect. The Palestinians initiated multiple conflicts against the Jews, even before the foundation of Israel. The Jewish people beat them back every time, and this same pattern continued after the Israel's founding. What happened throughout history when someone beat back a hostile enemy that attacked them? The loser lost territory, resources, and freedoms. Which isn't to say…

This conflict has nothing to do with "the Jews," and framing it in that way seriously distorts it. It's a conflict between the native population of Palestine and people who came in from the outside with the goal of making Palestine their own. The outsiders won for a number of reasons (British backing, superior political organization, etc.). They now rule over the native population, most of whom they deny any rights t…

It is about the Jews, because the Arab population started violent conflicts against Jews who were legally purchasing land up through Israel's founding. Palestinians lost territory because of the violence they repeatedly started, despite legitimate military losses over territory and new borders drawn by armistices.

Please read some history:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47159524

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#932

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

richardfeynman wrote: post #429
ok123456 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas didn't "weaponize every hospital in Gaza."

Finally, a refutable claim. Can you name me a hospital in Gaza that didn't have a Hamas presence?

Can you name a hospital in Israel that doesn't have an IDF presence?

"Presence" is an incredibly vague claim. In order to attack a hospital, you have to prove that the enemy is actively shooting at you from it, and your attack has to be proportionate. Vaguely asserting that some enemy might have set foot in the hospital at some point does not give you carte blanche to blow up a hospital full of civilians. Yet that's exactly what Israel has done over and over again.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#933

Post by richardfeynman »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #932
richardfeynman wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally, a refutable claim. Can you name me a hospital in Gaza that didn't have a Hamas presence?

Can you name a hospital in Israel that doesn't have an IDF presence? "Presence" is an incredibly vague claim. In order to attack a hospital, you have to prove that the enemy is actively shooting at you from it, and your attack has to be proportionate. Vaguely asserting that some enemy might have set foot in the hospital at some point does not give you carte blanche to blow up a hospital full of civilians. Yet that's…

I'm not vaguely asserting that "some enemy might have set foot in the hospital at some point." I'm accurately pointing out what is common knowledge: armed Hamas members were and are in hospitals, where they also took and killed Israeli hostages.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, Israel has not blown up any hospital buildings. This is a myth. If you think I'm wrong, point to which hospital building Israel blew up. Show me standard OSINT stuff: when it occurred, pictures of the rubble, the munitions used, who died.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#934

Post by sosomoxie »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #916
sosomoxie wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palestinians just want their stolen land back and not to be murdered by an invading force backed by a global superpower.

Then why do they consistently call for genocide? And why do they oppose a peaceful two-state solution?

They all for the removal of the people who stole their land, from their land. I support this obviously logical and moral position.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#935

Post by sosomoxie »

erezsh wrote: post #887
sosomoxie wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing stopping Israel from doing that is international outrage. Israel is entirely dependent on its benefactor states like the US and, while it pushes the limits to the extreme, must at least contend with world opinion.

That's like me saying you're a murderer, but you just haven't killed anyone yet because you're afraid of going to jail. Maybe it's true, but it's a bit of a silly argument, isn't it? In western society, we judge people based on their actions.

Israel has murdered tens of thousands of people. Your argument doesn't hold.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#936

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

richardfeynman wrote: post #933
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name a hospital in Israel that doesn't have an IDF presence? "Presence" is an incredibly vague claim. In order to attack a hospital, you have to prove that the enemy is actively shooting at you from it, and your attack has to be proportionate. Vaguely asserting that some enemy might have set foot in the hospital at some point does not give you carte blanche to blow up a hospital full of civilians. Yet that's…

I'm not vaguely asserting that "some enemy might have set foot in the hospital at some point." I'm accurately pointing out what is common knowledge: armed Hamas members were and are in hospitals, where they also took and killed Israeli hostages. Also, as I mentioned earlier, Israel has not blown up any hospital buildings. This is a myth. If you think I'm wrong, point to which hospital building Israel blew up. Show me…

IDF are all throughout the hospitals in Israel. Would you also justify Hamas attacking Israeli hospitals?

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#937

Post by sosomoxie »

yoavm wrote: post #768
postsantum wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of Tiananmen square in regard to how stubbornly westerners insist that NOTHING happened in Gaza before 7/23

The point isn't that nothing happened, it is that nothing _that justifies_ the attack happened.

Attacking the people who stole your land and murdered your family is justified in my book. I don't think I'm alone, very few people globally support Israel.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#938

Post by erezsh »

jajuuka wrote: post #878
mattmaroon wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If the Nazis could have killed all the Jews faster, they would have. They sought to eliminate Jews all throughout Europe. I’ve never heard this argument, but it’s unintelligent and I am not making it.

The existence of camps where jews and other "undesirables" were kept for long periods of time disproves this entirely. The Nazi's were not trying to speed run the process. They were systematically eliminating people. That's why it's a genocide and not a series of massacres. I would suggest sticking with the definition of genocide instead of coming up with your own convenient version.

You're just showing your ignorance. The Nazis killed the majority of their victims as soon as they arrived in the camp. They kept 20%-30%, mostly men who could work, to be used as slaves for their military industry, and they eliminated everyone else. They developed gassing especially in order to speed up the killing and make it more economical.

It was a genocide because they tried to eliminate a specific ethnic group, for no other reason than its ethnicity.

You should go learn more about the subject, if it interests you so much.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#939

Post by richardfeynman »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #936
richardfeynman wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not vaguely asserting that "some enemy might have set foot in the hospital at some point." I'm accurately pointing out what is common knowledge: armed Hamas members were and are in hospitals, where they also took and killed Israeli hostages. Also, as I mentioned earlier, Israel has not blown up any hospital buildings. This is a myth. If you think I'm wrong, point to which hospital building Israel blew up. Show me…

IDF are all throughout the hospitals in Israel. Would you also justify Hamas attacking Israeli hospitals?

Hospitals in Israel are generally guarded the same way hospitals in the US are: by police and security guards. As opposed to Hamas, the IDF doesn't use hospitals as bases. They don't build terror tunnels under hospitals. They don't take hostages to hospitals and kill them there. They don't shoot from hospitals. They don't store weapons in hospitals. Hamas does all of those things.

Re: IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report

#940

Post by int_19h »

bawolff wrote: post #674
LightBug1 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tens of millions protested the US response. Today they still spit to the side when having to say the name George Bush or Tony Blair, among others. You either weren't there, have a bad memory, are watching typically mainstream new sources, or are willfully ignoring the voices that are having that conversation today. Many of the ills today can be traced back to powers grabbed at the time to assist that so-called "war o…

I was alive at the time. While there were some protests, i dont recall them being all that significant, and many of the objecting voices seemed more concerned with the price tag rather than the human cost.

They were significant enough to make news in countries outside of US.
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