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Linux is good now

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Re: Linux is good now

#931

Post by ThatPlayer »

krzyk wrote: post #698
tyfon wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My PS5 can do 4k/120 hz with VRR support, not sure about the others.

I'm bit puzzled, isn't VRR more for low powered hardware to consume less battery (handhelds like steam deck)? How does it fit hardware that is constantly connected to power? (I assume VRR = Variable Refresh Rate)

Variable refresh rate is nice when your refresh rate doesn't match your output. Especially when you're getting into higher refresh rates. So if your display is running at 120hz, but you're only outputting 100hz: you cannot fit 100 frames evenly into 120 frames. 1/6 of your frames will have to be repeats of other frames, and in an inconsistent manner. Usually called judder.

Most TVs will not let you set the refresh rate to 100hz. Even if my computer could run a game at 100hz, without VRR, my choices are either lots of judder, or lowering it to 60hz. That's a wide range of possible refresh rates you're missing out on.

V-Sync and console games will do this too at 60hz. If you can't reach 60hz, cap the game at 30hz to prevent judder that would come from anything in between 31-59. The Steam Deck actually does not support VRR. Instead the actual display driver does support anything from 40-60hz.

This is also sometimes an issue with movies filmed at 24hz on 60hz displays too: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p

Re: Linux is good now

#932

Post by ozgrakkurt »

kderbe wrote: post #550

Steve Burke from GamersNexus tested eight games from their benchmark suite on Linux last month. Although his conclusion was generally positive, there were problems with nearly every game: - F1 2024 didn't load due to anti-cheat - Dragon's Dogma 2 and Resident Evil 4 had non-functional raytracing - Cyberpunk 2077 with raytracing on consistently crashes when reloading a save game - Dying Light 2 occasionally freezes fo…

This sounds nothing like my personal experience. I was able for play every single game I tried including

Asetto corsa competizione

Basically all total war games

Cyberpunk

Witcher 3

Dishonored

Mafia 1 and 2

AC origins/odyssey

Civilization 5

Detroit become human

Prey

Crusader kings 3

Stellaris

Metro exodus

And more games I don’t remember

I don’t enable ray tracing or resolution scaling so that might be making the difference on games that have it.

Chances are you can run it if something is at least gold on protondb

Also my gpu is amd.

As a side note, I played cyberpunk for more than 400 hours on max settings without any major issue so saying it doesn’t work because of rtx is very silly imho

Re: Linux is good now

#933

Post by 3A2D50 »

robhlt wrote: post #877
3A2D50 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Television HDR mode is set to FILMMAKER, OLED brightness 100%, Energy Saving Mode is off. Connected to AVR with HDMI cable that says 8K. PC has Manjaro Linux with RTX 3060 12GB Graphic card driver: Nvidia 580.119.02 KDE Plasma Version 6.5.4 KDE Frameworks Version: 6.21.0 Qt Version: 6.10.1 Kernel Version 6.12.63-1-MANJARO Graphics Platform: Wayland Display Configuration High Dynamic Range: Enable HDR is checked There…

I don't think the Interstellar Blu-ray has Dolby Vision (or Dolby Atmos), just regular HDR10. If the TV/AVR says it's Dolby Vision something in your setup might be doing some kind of upconversion.

You're right! It looks like the Sony UBP-X700 doesn't automatically detect the HDR type and was set to Dolby Vision. I turned it off and the TV now displays the same HDR logo it shows when connecting to the PC. The AVR says...

  Resolution: 4K24

  HDR: HDR10

  Color Space: YCbCr 4:4:4/BT.2020

  Pixel Depth: 12bits

  FRL Rate: ---
...color are now more aligned with the PC. The Blu-ray video seems to be showing more detail in the explosion. I thought this extra detail was because of more color being shown, but I now think this might have something to do with Youtube's HDR video being more compressed.

Re: Linux is good now

#934

Post by Animats »

semilin wrote: post #440
Animats wrote: post #431

If only. Ubuntu seems to be slowly getting worse. - Firefox seems to be able to freeze both itself and, sometimes, the whole system. Usually while typing text into a large text box. - Recently, printing didn't work for two days. Some pushed update installed a version of the CUPS daemon which reported a syntax error on the cupsd.conf file. A few days later, the problem went away, after much discussion on forums about…

These seem annoying, but I'd argue that these problems are in some ways less significant on Linux than on Windows. If some function of Windows is broken or unsatisfactory, there is not necessarily a way to fix it. But you can adjust your own system. It'd be unhelpful of me to suggest to an unhappy Windows user that they should switch to another operating system, as that demands a drastic change of environment. On the…

> But you can adjust your own system.

User desktops should not require a sysadmin. It has to Just Work unless you're doing something exotic.

Re: Linux is good now

#935

Post by 3A2D50 »

bitanarch wrote: post #314
3A2D50 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Interstellar on 4K UltraHD Blu-ray that features HDR on the cover, Sony 4K Blu-ray player (UBP-X700) and a LG G4 OLED television. I also have an AVR (Denon AVR-S760H 7.2 Ch) connecting both the Blu-ray and a PC running Linux with a RTX 3060 12GB graphic card to the television. I've been meaning to compare HDR on Linux with the Blu-ray. I guess now better than never. I'll reply back to my post after I am done.

Try it with different monitors you have. The current nVidia Linux drivers only has BGR output for 10bpp, which works on TVs and OLEDs but not most LCDs monitors. My monitors (InnoCN 27M2V and Cooler Master GP27U) require RGB input, which means it's limited to 8bpp even with HDR enabled on Wayland. There's another commentator below who uses a Dell monitor and manages to get BGR input working and full HDR in nVidia/Lin…

I connected two portable LCDs I have that support HDR. Both LCDs didn't automatically detect HDR and looked washed out initially. I had to manually change them to HDR. The signal according to the AVR was...

  Resolution: 4K60

  HDR: HDR10

  Color Space: YCbCr 4:4:4/BT.2020

  Pixel Depth: 12bits

  FRL Rate: ---
...for both the LCDs.

Here are their specs:

  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Q5L245X 

  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08131MVGT
With the HDR off for both the desktop and LCD, the Youtube HDR video at 19s seems flat. I could increase the monitor's brightness to match the planet brightness when HDR is on, but space would be washed out. Of course without HDR, lowering the brightness for darker space results in the planet becoming darker too.

When HDR is off for LCD and desktop I do still see a difference between Youtube's HDR and SDR videos. For example, at the 19s mark I cannot see most of the debris scattering between the viewer and the planet in the SDR video. That should be the case for you too.

*Edit: Strange... one of the monitors states 10bit colors in the link even though the AVR claimed a signal of 12bits. Not sure what to make of that!

Re: Linux is good now

#936

Post by tstrimple »

ruszki wrote: post #696
Cort3z wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been working professionally on Linux for many years. But about once a year I have to reinstall the os because it craps out for various reasons. The same story goes for most of my team, but for some reason they seem ok with this. My issue with Linux is this: I don’t feel like a consumer, but a janitor. I don’t want this. Yes you can do whatever you want, but I don’t want to do those things. I want to write code…

> janitor Perfect analogy. I'm using Debian for a few months now on my main laptop, and everything is flawed. Seriously, everything. - Hybrid graphics simply doesn't work. The exception is when it works. Don't even try Wayland with it. - Graphics card handling is still full with race conditions. It's random when everything works as intended without manual intervention. - Switching monitors is pain. Sometimes works, s…

Linux truly is far better now than it was even a year ago for gaming stuff. The Linux fanboys stating that everything works flawlessly and better than on Windows aren't doing anyone any favors. Steam Compatibility is a useless flag and ProtonDB is full of "Platinum" games that are barely functional. Despite the additional complexity what got Linux to work well for my son is NixOS. He had attempted to run with multiple "Windows replacement" Linux distros and managed to keep getting them broken to one degree or another. The "Nix" way of managing packages really clicked with him for some reason and being able to reboot to a previous derivation if something goes wrong keeps him with a running system.

Generally I'd avoid Linux on laptops altogether. Even hardware explicitly designed for Linux support has tons of other tradeoffs and most manufacturers don't even try. I'd say Linux on the desktop is night and day from Linux on laptops.

Re: Linux is good now

#938

Post by tstrimple »

tombert wrote: post #252
Biganon wrote: post #228

I'm tired of people saying Steam on Linux just works. It doesn't. Tried running Worms: instant crash, no error message. Tried running Among Us: instant crash, had to add cryptic arguments to the command line to get it to run. Tried running Parkitect: crashes after 5 minutes. These three games are extremely simple, graphically speaking. They don't use any complicated anti-cheat measure. This shouldn't be complicated,…

I don't have your other games, but I do have a few Worms games and they worked out of the box for me with GE Proton on NixOS. I'm not saying "you're doing it wrong", because obviously if you're having trouble then that is, if nothing else, bad UX design, but I actually am kind of curious as to what you're doing different than me. I have an extremely vanilla NixOS setup that boots into GameScope + Tenfoot and I drive…

If you need to use GE Proton then Proton doesn't "Just Work" by any definition. It "Just Works" if you jump through these other hoops and include community fixes. And then if the GE version doesn't work maybe you have to try Experimental or sometimes even Hotfix. All very much not "Just Works". Windows users don't have to download community versions of the Steam runtime in order to play certain games and then play whack-a-mole with versions whenever a new game comes out. There must be a vast difference between what "Just Works" means to folks who have used Linux for years and years and folks who come from Windows. This comment from the Far Cry 5 ProtonDB page highlights this perfectly I think: "Play great with some script. Disable hyperthreading in bios to speed up loading game"

Edit: Just tested another game for "Just Works" status.

https://www.protondb.com/app/1771300

Platinum support. 14 minutes before my first crash. Latest NixOS w/latest NVidia drivers. I have had luck on most games I play. But they also always seem to require some sort of effort to tweak settings to get it into a playable state. I'm sure I could spend 15-30 minutes researching KCD2 Steam Proton issues and get it resolved. That's effort I wouldn't have to make on Windows.

Re: Linux is good now

#939

Post by mrheosuper »

Tom1380 wrote: post #689
mrheosuper wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am wondering can game be shipped with their own "kernel" and "hypervisor", basically an entire VM. Yes performance will take a hit, but in my experience with my own VM, it's like 15-20%.

Do you pass through the GPU? Or how does it work?

Yes i passthrough the GPU

Re: Linux is good now

#940

Post by tombert »

tstrimple wrote: post #938
tombert wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have your other games, but I do have a few Worms games and they worked out of the box for me with GE Proton on NixOS. I'm not saying "you're doing it wrong", because obviously if you're having trouble then that is, if nothing else, bad UX design, but I actually am kind of curious as to what you're doing different than me. I have an extremely vanilla NixOS setup that boots into GameScope + Tenfoot and I drive…

If you need to use GE Proton then Proton doesn't "Just Work" by any definition. It "Just Works" if you jump through these other hoops and include community fixes. And then if the GE version doesn't work maybe you have to try Experimental or sometimes even Hotfix. All very much not "Just Works". Windows users don't have to download community versions of the Steam runtime in order to play certain games and then play wh…

I don't have Kingdom Come so I can't test it.

> That's effort I wouldn't have to make on Windows.

It's weird the amount of amnesia people seem to have with all the bullshit associated with Windows and Windows gaming. I think you're being absolutely ridiculous if you're claiming that things consistently work better with Windows, even for Windows games. There's been plenty of times when I had to do shit like disable "Data Execution Prevention" [1], or install weird wrappers for older games [2], or if I'm very lucky I have to go find the executable, right click on it and run with compatibility mode.

I don't think you're lying or anything, but I do think you're wrong; I have spent many hours debugging bullshit with Windows to make games run, especially older games but not always. For example, I couldn't get Chronicles of Riddick Assault on Dark Athena to work on Windows (when it was new) initially because of a weird bugginess associated with Securom and Windows. That was a headache of fighting with registry files and reinstalling to eventually get it work. I had many issues with stability when playing Borderlands on Windows, to a point that it became a running joke with my friends (despite having an up to date video card and plenty of memory). These aren't the most up to date examples because I got fed up enough that I ran away to Linux.

I admittedly don't play through a lot of newer games, but I do occasionally play through them, and I played through the entirety of Marvel's Spider-man and Myles Morales, including DLC, without any crashes and as far as I can tell literally no issues at all. I was also able to install and play Resident Evil Village, though I haven't beaten that one yet (but I have played for more than fifteen minutes). Obviously sample size of one though.

GE Proton was something I installed when I was installing the rest of my SteamOS stuff with a custom built machine, so I agree it's not "Just Works" but it was a one time thing I did and never thought about it again. I'm not sure what it buys me over regular Proton honestly; I installed it because someone told me to install it and it's not been an issue.

Nvidia drivers are definitely pretty hit-or-miss on Linux though (mostly miss), no argument on that. I usually just buy AMD and it's a non-issue.

I don't really care if you run Windows, if you like it then you're of course free to make your own bad decisions, but I just think you're wrong if you claim Windows doesn't have its share of bullshit involving basically anything graphical.

[1] https://steamcommunity.com/app/8140/discussions/0/7845908574... To be clear on that one, I encountered this error when it was new, with a current version of Windows.

[2] https://www.svenswrapper.de/english/

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