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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#931

Post by CivBase »

tsimionescu wrote: post #928
CivBase wrote: post #908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great, but you've missed my point. I get payed more in the US, so I can afford the extra cost for university. And once that university bill is paid, I can pocket the extra. There are still reasons why high university costs can be a problem. Teachers, for example, don't get paid near enough to be able to cover university costs in a few years like I was able to. But becoming a teacher requires just as much inves…

That's true for a handful of jobs, but not so much in general. Sure, in CS and medicine and Wall Street you get salaries that are huge compared to typical EU salaries. But this doesn't apply at all to all white collar work - certainly not at the 10x - 100x difference in college tuitions. Not to mention, I also gave the example of the tuitions for a Swiss university, and Swiss salaries are typically at least comparabl…

> certainly not at the 10x - 100x difference in college tuitions.

The full time tuition rate at the university I got my engineering degree from is currently $11k /yr. I can't imagine that's even 10x a typical EU university - let alone 100x.

My local community college's full time tuition is currently $5.8k /yr. Either way it's a lot of money, but lets not exaggerate things too far. We're worried about affordable access to education here - not getting everyone into Harvard.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#932

Post by fsckboy »

hedora wrote: post #763
marcosdumay wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means the organization and selection of data is copyrightable, and only if they are creative. If you write your own tags for the codes, and makes a compilation of them all, none of that will cover your database.

Also, I think the bitlaw interpretation is incorrect. “Sweat of the brow” doesn’t magically produce copyright protection, and they don’t mention that. Taking their example, if you had a collections from quotes from presidents, and I got a bunch of similar collections, then made my own ultimate definitive collection based partially on your list, then there’s very little chance I’d be liable for violating your copyrigh…

>“Sweat of the brow” doesn’t magically produce copyright protection

...then you go on to make the "sweat of the brow" argument

"typesetting" doesn't enter into it, "database" is meant to include the computerized version

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#933

Post by tsimionescu »

CivBase wrote: post #931
tsimionescu wrote: post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true for a handful of jobs, but not so much in general. Sure, in CS and medicine and Wall Street you get salaries that are huge compared to typical EU salaries. But this doesn't apply at all to all white collar work - certainly not at the 10x - 100x difference in college tuitions. Not to mention, I also gave the example of the tuitions for a Swiss university, and Swiss salaries are typically at least comparabl…

> certainly not at the 10x - 100x difference in college tuitions. The full time tuition rate at the university I got my engineering degree from is currently $11k /yr. I can't imagine that's even 10x a typical EU university - let alone 100x. My local community college's full time tuition is currently $5.8k /yr. Either way it's a lot of money, but lets not exaggerate things too far. We're worried about affordable acces…

The tuition rate for any public university in France (for EU citizens) is €250/year. So your tuition was not 100x, it was just 44x what you'd pay for those.

Let's say that's unfair, since the state pays your tuition (though this is the common experience for most French students!). In Amsterdam, one of the best universities in the world, TU Delft, charges €2k/year tuition. Your tuition was less than 10x this, true, but not that far from that. Also, for a common 4 year bachelor's degree, that's €8k in total - your $100k total is more than 10x this.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#934

Post by thatfrenchguy »

knollimar wrote: post #645
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add a French and American person, in the US you hear "insurance did not approve", in France it's more "you can't get an appointment / the surgery provider does not have any spots unless you go to their spots in their private hospital". The French system is more predictable (because any vaguely sane healthcare system has a price for a code instead of negotiated rates, negotiated rates is the most inefficient way to ru…

Do negotiated rates not affect quality of care? I work in contracting and negotiated rates allow me to add quality, while systems like price codes incentivize minimum effort/outcomes. I know doctors probably take their jobs more seriously, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't bleed over into healthcare quality.

Negotiated rates are per code here though, and doctors generally aren’t the ones doing the actual coding for the visit in the US, they have folks going through your doctor’s notes and figuring out the codes. Another reason why the overhead of health care is so high in the US.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#935

Post by guy_5676 »

keybored wrote: post #924
guy_5676 wrote: post #917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No. Yours is uncharitable because it has got nothing to do with how many languages you speak. This is not a multiglot competition." I was referring to this specific part of the comment I replied to: "Americans are averse to learning languages as opposed to other people". My response is a very accurate explanation of the reasons why this is a) an unfair way of looking at things, and b) not unique to Americans. What a…

> I was referring to this specific part of the comment I replied to: "Americans are averse to learning languages as opposed to other people". My response is a very accurate explanation of the reasons why this is a) an unfair way of looking at things, and b) not unique to Americans. What aspect of my response is uncharitable? I'm not saying things should be one way or another, just explaining how they are. Okay that’s…

No, it is not my interpretation. You can be willfully ignorant about this if you want, but you are just plain wrong. I'm talking about countries I grew up in and went to school with the locals with. I know the norms of the people I was around better then you.

If you go to a place that views western culture through a looking glass and is trying to learn English to progress to a better point in life, English is cool, speaking English is cool. Not saying that is a good way for things to be (or that literally every person you will meet will have this mindset), but that is how it is for a significant portion of people.

"Do you know what a comparison is? I did not call you an American. There’s no reason to take offense"

I'm not offended, but your remark was a) clearly intended as an insult and b) demonstrated that you were likely stereotyping me on a very particular way, which runs completely contrary to my actual experience with these matters.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#936

Post by CivBase »

tsimionescu wrote: post #933
CivBase wrote: post #931

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> certainly not at the 10x - 100x difference in college tuitions. The full time tuition rate at the university I got my engineering degree from is currently $11k /yr. I can't imagine that's even 10x a typical EU university - let alone 100x. My local community college's full time tuition is currently $5.8k /yr. Either way it's a lot of money, but lets not exaggerate things too far. We're worried about affordable acces…

The tuition rate for any public university in France (for EU citizens) is €250/year. So your tuition was not 100x, it was just 44x what you'd pay for those. Let's say that's unfair, since the state pays your tuition (though this is the common experience for most French students!). In Amsterdam, one of the best universities in the world, TU Delft, charges €2k/year tuition. Your tuition was less than 10x this, true, bu…

My $100k total includes much more than tuition. I probably had ~$40k in actual tuition.

Again, it's too much. But it's not comparable to emergency medical bills without insurance.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#937

Post by BobbyTables2 »

stephen_g wrote: post #694
BobbyTables2 wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In tech, 3-4 weeks vacation not usual for senior roles. Often “unlimited” but in practice far more than 10 days. That might be for new/inexperienced hires in crappy companies.

For comparison, 4 weeks is the absolute minimum for any full-time worker here in Australia, and that’s less than people in the UK/Europe get.

Wow, sounds nice. Started at 2 Weeks at beginning of career. Had even a bit less due to 3-5 days of mandatory shutdowns during Christmas time.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#939

Post by fsckboy »

marcosdumay wrote: post #357
fsckboy wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A code is not an artistic expression and so can't be copyrightable. that was changed https://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/database.html Databases are generally protected by copyright law as compilations. Under the Copyright Act, a compilation is defined as a "collection and assembling of preexisting materials or of data that are selected in such a way that the resulting work as a whole constitutes an original work of a…

That means the organization and selection of data is copyrightable, and only if they are creative. If you write your own tags for the codes, and makes a compilation of them all, none of that will cover your database.

creation of a database is a creative act

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#940

Post by sixothree »

whimsicalism wrote: post #131
sixothree wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to believe you say we aren't subject to rationing when pre-authorization is as big as it is. You should see some of the proposed rules. Pre-authorization will start to use a medical language called CQL and there will be literally thousands of queries EHRs will need to implement to ensure their customers can get the care they need.

> Hard to believe you say we aren't subject to rationing when pre-authorization is as big as it is. If you want to see true rationing, look to the UK (especially) or Canada (less so) where I know plenty of people who have to wait over a year to see a specialist even after doctor referral. Meanwhile, my parents in the US at a hospital get a CT scan, MRI 'just in case' immediately (or close-to for the MRI) and pay noth…

The wait time to see my GP is like 5 months. What are you going on about?
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