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Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

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Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#931

There should be a limit on the number of pardons a president can do during their tenure so that they have to at least think a bit before using it. It is a very powerful tool that actually allows a last resort. But this kind of egregious abuse of it's power means it needs to be kept in check.

Pardons by American presidents: - Bill Clinton: 459 - George W. Bush: 200 - Barack Obama: 1,927 - Donald Trump (first term): 237 - Joe Biden: 4,245 - Donald Trump (second term): 1,600 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_gra...

Numbers matter less than reasons. We should be asking why, not how many.

Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#932
post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we're ok with murdering dozens of people that might maybe have some kind of drugs on them? In peacetime? Without evidence? Outside of our own territory/water? We're lucky Venezuela hasn't attacked us back yet.

Your doubt in US intelligence and military capability shows. Venezuela attacking US assets would result in swift, almost instantaneous elimination of the threat. The speed boats hauling ass in international waters are known smugglers on known routes using customized craft only drug smugglers use. Policy of vaporizing these boats with weapons is both a) fairly effortless target practice for our military and b) puts ma…

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Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which congress do you want doing that review? The past several congresses have been unqualified to do any sort of constitutional reviewing in my opinion.

The U.S. is running an outdated installation of democracy. The French approach of just rebooting and reinstalling the entire thing seems like a good idea at this point. Except the populace is already badly split into warring camps.

The first Version had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism as a way to eject populists, treasonous agitators and destabilizing personal.

Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#934
post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. is running an outdated installation of democracy. The French approach of just rebooting and reinstalling the entire thing seems like a good idea at this point. Except the populace is already badly split into warring camps.

For better or worse, the US constitution does not have provisions or a process for dissolving itself and developing a new constitution. The closest thing we have is the amendment process. In theory we could use that to rewrite the entirety of the constitution[0], but good luck getting the required votes in place on any possible replacement. The bar is pretty high: amendments need to be proposed by either a vote of 2/…

Put it under a the peoples direct majority vote to reset to a past working version control?

Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#935
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these past few administrations I remain amazed at how, again and again, no matter how specific and unique an abuse by the Trump administration is, it is always, invariably, Really Joe Biden's Fault. Like, the frame has been adopted by the MAGA base, but also the cranky left. The media does it too. Here on HN bothsidesism is a shibboleth that denotes "I'm a Serious Commenter and not a Partisan Hack". But it leads to…

This comment is a perfect explanation of my observations on here too. Thanks.

Yeah, a lot of people on HN can’t seem to cope with the truth. I guess they’ll finally understand over the next 12 mos

Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#936
post #867
post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Submarines generally aren’t fishing.

And we're ok with murdering dozens of people that might maybe have some kind of drugs on them? In peacetime? Without evidence? Outside of our own territory/water? We're lucky Venezuela hasn't attacked us back yet.

And even if they were smuggling drugs, what if there were children on board? Do they deserve to die because of the crimes of their parents? What if they kidnapped someone and forced them to pilot the boat? Does that person deserve to die?

Imagine the US instead pulling the ship over and shooting every person, regardless of age or guilt, in the head—and then leaving. This is no different.

Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#937

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Indian constitution too gives the President the power to pardon someone convicted. However, the Supreme Court has since clarified that this power is not absolute, and the court can subject it to a judicial review. ( https://compass.rauias.com/current-affairs/pardoning-powers-... ).

You're comparing our (flawed) democracy with a fake democracy.

> You're comparing our (flawed) democracy

Sweet child. It was never a full democracy, I'd qualify it as a developing democracy, depending on how much damage this administration does, and when does USA enact the urgent reforms needed to transform into a full-fledged democracy.

Right now it's an oligarchy, capitalism as a political system. Money is a crucial component of campaigns, bribery is rampant, impunity becomes progressively less subtle. It had good PR after WW2 though, but reality hasn't matched the propaganda.

I say it from another eroding democracy, it seems like true democracies are incompatible with populous countries.

Re: Trump pardons convicted Binance founder

#940
post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy it. A president that will literally direct his AG in public to prosecute his political enemies is simply not bound by norms, period. To pretend that he'd never have pardoned Zhao but for Obama's "increased number of pardons" is, to be blunt, ridiculous on its face. And in context, you're doing exactly what I mocked above, tut tutting about civil behavior and norms and The Discourse while the system burns…

> And in context, you're doing exactly what I mocked above, tut tutting about civil behavior and norms and The Discourse while the system burns down around you. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do then. I agree Trump is bad. Am I supposed to just say that 3 times and click my heels and then he'll go away? These are observations designed around trying to make sure, once Trump is gone, that we don't get another Trump.…

> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do then.

Refocus you're attention. The problem is not with the pardon power. You said:

> That bad actor is Trump. But the warnings from abusing these limitations

But that's the thing, the pardon power is not supposed to be limited. How would you limit it? Who would actually tell the President "No" and on what authority? The obvious choices are Congress and the Courts but they already checks to balance the the President. That's why they can't check it -- the pardon power is the President's check on them (along with the veto power).

Hamilton said:

    "Without an easy access to exceptions in favor of unfortunate guilt, justice would wear a countenance too sanguinary and cruel."
That's what it's for. After all the process, if justice is not done, and there's no way to undo it, then justice will not survive and there will be no confidence in the system. But with great power comes great responsibility, so you need someone very responsible in that position or else it doesn't work.

So then how do we fix it if not by adding laws and rules? We don't elect people like Trump, who think they are above the law. That's it. I know it seems kind of glib but it's not a high bar to just avoid malignant narcissists.

The reason Trump is abusing the pardon power is because he does not consider what he's doing an abuse. He sees that he has the "right" to do it under the Constitution, and to him, anything he has the right to do, he can do. And you know what, despite him being abusive he does have the right. But that's the thing, we gave him that right, and we can take it away and give it to someone else who won't abuse it.

That is the actual check on the pardon power, but that's on us. It's on us because Trump abused the pardon power in his first term by dangling pardons in front of Paul Manafort when he was being investigated by the DOJ, so none of this should be a surprise to anyone. Obama's "abuses" and Bidens "abuses" are on everyone's lips here, but not a single word for Trump's 1st term abuses (mine is the first mention of the Manafort pardon in over 1000 comments). So if you really want the root cause of his power abuse beyond his psychopathology, it's that -- because not only did we not care he did that, we actually reelected him as he promised to abuse his power during the campaign, so why wouldn't he actually do it?

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