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Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

theguardian.com

931–940 of 960 posts

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#931
Comments are full of people saying it’s a service thing and not a price thing.

I feel like that’s a bit disingenuous. You can rent anything on Prime for a couple £ (I focus on rent as the “buy” has the deletion problem) in multiple video qualities.

I am not disagreeing with the service issues, but a large part of the problem is people not willing to pay what studios deem as market value.

Case in point - early streamers had less fragmentation and still had the same service problem, but they could consolidate at low price due to vc subsidy. And piracy went down.

Let’s not forget Netflix and Spotify were not profitable for ages.

So my money would be on price actually being the cardinal problem.

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#932
post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always, it has generated cult classics that have built a valuable fan base of support for many cases. Downstream it can increase in person popularity that wouldn’t otherwise exist.

Ah, this is like the "trickle down" theory of piracy.

It was the explicit policy of Bill Gates and others in regards to Asia.

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't notice the removal and therefore don't have a reason to look elsewhere, it has the same effect

But that's unrelated to why tech. People advertising one version instead of another does not have a technical solution. The only thing tech can provide is the ability to keep copying the old version, regardless of what the original creator/distributor thinks.

Tech can provide a signature of the original to verify that it hasn't been tampered with

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#934
post #921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "pedanticity", it's that the facts matter and you are wrong. We've seen this tactic before: proponents of draconian copyright laws intentionally conflated "copying" (as in the digital world) with "theft" (as in "you wouldn't steal a car" -- are you familiar with this campaign from 2004 that largely backfired?). So that's why words matter. You are misusing them in a way that has been weaponized in the past, w…

>We've seen This is what bugs me about you. Who is "we"? It's like you're calling "we" the rest of the free world. Be real, most people aren't on your side. "We" in reality is just a small group of fanatical FSF members vs. The rest of the entire world.

[deleted]

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#935
post #920

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wait, I thought we decided we were using the word "theft" informally. Nope. We were discussing with someone else (before you chimed in) who argued it was exactly theft . When shown this was false, the person argued it was morally equivalent (this was also false). > Again, if you want to nitpick over the word "theft" look at the long list of examples I posted above I'm not nitpicking, you're factually wrong. Have yo…

>When shown this was false, the person argued it was morally equivalent (this was also false). This is an utter lie. Not just false. But dishonest. Nothing was shown. What happened was, the person (me) stated regardless of whether or not it's theft or not, none of your logic works. It doesn't matter if it's theft, it's just pedantic bullshit on your part, so why don't we just go with it to move the argument forward.…

> The past is the one that's irrelevant. Times have changed. You're still walking 10 miles to get to school while the rest of the world now drives cars. Wake up.

You have it backwards. The modern world is naturally copyright-infringing. Computers and the digital are copying devices. It's you who, applying an outdated lens of "theft", are stuck in the past.

You know you're wrong. After all, you admitted you pirate everything.

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#936
post #8

For me worse than the can't pay is the lack of options. In the VHS time I had more good movie options than in the current streaming services. I remember when I bing watched Kurozawa or Mario Monicelli's movies. Now it's very hard to find non American cinema. The tech is there, but the System fail us.

Have you checked out Criterion or Mubi. Lots of excellent foreign movies. Criterion seems to have about two dozen Kurozawa movies.

Thanks. Never heard about Criterion. I'm not in USA. These are very expensive to buy and don't have subtitles in my native language.

I'm complaining that the tech to allow me to stream every movie ever produced is here, but I'm not able to do so.

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#937
post #914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've established nothing of the sort. Secrets can be copied just as trivially as any other information. That's why numerous measures are taken to avoid their revelation. If I tell people my bank credentials, I have nobody but myself to blame when money is transferred out of my accounts. If I upload my secret encryption keys to some cloud service, I have nobody but myself to blame when others gain the ability to decr…

>We've established nothing of the sort. Oh no we have. Your original these was based on the premise that "just copying numbers" is not "victimless". So now why is there even a concern that money is being transferred out of bank accounts or data being decrypted without consent? Aren't they "just numbers"? >The effort invested into creation of value is often completely irrelevant, even in copyright law. Many countries…

There are no contradictions.

I don't think of passwords as my personal private property. They are merely secrets that I keep. I don't have a monopoly on them. Any number of people could have the same password as I do and I wouldn't even know or care. They are just random numbers of no particular value whatsoever.

The copying of passwords does not cause direct harm. If it did, then the publishing of common password lists would be harmful and criminal. The real crime is the act of breaking into someone's bank accounts and draining their money which actually deprives them of real scarce resources. In other words, theft.

The copying of a password alone is likely insufficient to cause real harm due to numerous layers of security such as multifactor authentication.

The usage of passwords is well aligned with reality. People don't deliberately publish their passwords and then act surprised when others use them. That pathology is exclusive to copyright monopolists.

Exercising control over cryptographic keys is realistic. Ideally, only a single copy will ever exist in the entire universe. I have purpose built cryptoprocessors which help ensure that. In the event they are leaked, they are merely discarded and new ones are issued.

Cryptography is fundamentally built on math. At no point do they deny reality. Cryptographers know that numbers are trivially copied, that's why keys are supposed to be kept secret, not published far and wide. They don't impose laws prohibiting others from copying or deriving the numbers, they know such things are unenforceable. Instead, they design their systems so that such things are not an issue. The whole point of cryptographic keys is that they are secret and cosmologically impossible to brute force. They went beyond making it illegal, they made it mathematically impossible.

Meanwhile, exercising control over copyrighted works requires that corporations control every single one of our computers, lest some user order them to make unauthorized copies. In the event that even a single copy escapes their closed system, there's no stopping it anymore and it's all over for them. They still try to stop it by doubling down on monopolies, passing unenforceable laws, trying to usurp control of our computers and generally increasing the overall tyranny of our society. A heavy cost, and they still fail due to the basic fact that they are trying to control public information.

So even after careful consideration I conclude these things are not even remotely analogous to each other at all.

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#938
post #921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "pedanticity", it's that the facts matter and you are wrong. We've seen this tactic before: proponents of draconian copyright laws intentionally conflated "copying" (as in the digital world) with "theft" (as in "you wouldn't steal a car" -- are you familiar with this campaign from 2004 that largely backfired?). So that's why words matter. You are misusing them in a way that has been weaponized in the past, w…

>We've seen This is what bugs me about you. Who is "we"? It's like you're calling "we" the rest of the free world. Be real, most people aren't on your side. "We" in reality is just a small group of fanatical FSF members vs. The rest of the entire world.

"We" refers to people who agree with us, and that includes the Supreme Court of the United States.

Refer to my other comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44921015

> Theft, meanwhile, emphasizes the potential commercial harm of infringement to copyright holders.

> However, copyright is a type of intellectual property, an area of law distinct from that which covers robbery or theft, offenses related only to tangible property.

> Not all copyright infringement results in commercial loss

> the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1985 that infringement does not easily equate with theft

> Judge Kathleen M. Williams granted a motion to deny the MPAA the usage of words whose appearance was primarily "pejorative"

> This list included the word "piracy", the use of which, the motion by the defense stated, serves no court purpose but to misguide and inflame the jury

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#939
post #917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when someone takes something of value > it is essentially taking something of value Intellectual property is not "taken". It is not a tangible good that can change hands. Copies are made instead. Copyright refers to the right to make copies. Having a copyright means having the right to make copies. To infringe someone's copyright is to make copies despite the right to make copies belonging to someone else. The w…

Sigh, I knew the word "take" would invoke pedanticity... So when you "take interest" or "take advantage" or "take a look" or "take your time", what tangible good is being "taken"? When you "take pleasure in something", like say a TV show, you are deriving value from it. What tangible goods are involved here? When somebody provides you a service -- say washing your car -- you are still taking value from it even withou…

We're citing and discussing the precise definitions of specific legal terms. Your counterargument is to point out the colloquial and out of context usage of words.

I already replied to the argument you cited. It's already been explained to you. Even the Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you.

If I really wanted to be pedantic, I would start claiming that it's all the english expressions you cited that are weird and make no sense at first glance.

I don't "take pleasure in something", I derive pleasure from something. The pleasure is obviously not contained in the object or activity. It's not even a real thing that can be taken. Pleasure is just the way my mind reacts when I engage with an object or in an activity I enjoy. A feeling spontaneously generated from something else.

I don't "take interest in something", I develop an interest in something. The subject did not contain the interest, it just spontaneously appeared in my mind after I considered the subject, leading me to want to know more.

The detail that makes these expressions work is the word "in". The places pleasure and interest are taken from are actually left unspecified. What this means is people "take" pleasure and interest from the intangible abstract world and place them in their minds over the course of engaging with an object or activity. I can definitely empathize with the thought process that produced these weird colloquial expressions.

But who am I to question the meaning of english words anyway? I'm not even a native. That's why I cite authorities such as the Supreme Court of the United States. They say copyright infringement is not strictly equivalent to theft. Courts have ruled that it's not even strictly equivalent to commercial loss. All that makes sense and I believe them.

This really should mark the end of this discussion.

Re: Streaming services are driving viewers back to piracy

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does one safely pirate these days to avoid authorities

Maybe I'm just lucky with where I've lived, but I've literally never had problems pirating without obfuscating my traffic in any way whatsoever. I've been torrenting since I was a kid, too, and I torrent literally everything you can possibly torrent from software to music. Do people really get hounded for piracy in other countries? But you can check out fmhy.net, it's a great resource (unaffiliated, it's just a genui…

Apparently this depends on where you live. It's pretty well known that in Germany, if you're found torrenting, you will at first receive an angry email from your ISP demanding you pay them €100-€1000. If you ignore this email, they will take you to court, and the judge will order you to pay the same fine plus their legal fees and the court fees. If you don't go to court, this will be directly debited from your bank account. If you don't have the money in your bank account, it will be garnished from your wages. This will happen, 100% of the time. Not even "someone hacked my wifi" is an excuse (even when true), because even if that was true, you would still be liable because it's your fault for not securing your wifi better.

Meanwhile in some other countries - even EU ones - nobody gives a shit and people can receive 10 copyright infringement notices a day and throw them all in the metaphorical trash.

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