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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#931

Post by firefax »

I don't think we understand the word "lonely" if we think an AI can solve it.

An AI isn't going to throw you a birthday party, or pick you up when the last bus for the night blows past you. (I guess I'm dating myself with that very pre-Uber example).

The ever present knowledge that you are unwelcome and alone cannot be solved with a glorified chatbot, because to be lonely is to accurately perceive oneself is unwelcome in society.

This is often the point folks stan "therapy" -- but in my experience, people say "get therapy" because they want you to learn distress tolerance... and shut up.

What happens when you go to therapy, and unpack that you're unwelcome in your home, and systematic discrimination is going to stop you from leaving?

For some, it seems, they turn to a chatbot to replace the warmth others get from friends.

Or maybe I'm projecting a bit but hey, what is a nym for, if not to speak the truths we wouldn't under our real names?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#932

Post by hooverd »

Animats wrote: post #490

The same criticism was leveled at social media, mostly Facebook. Then at mobile phones. Before that, it was aimed at television. In between, it was aimed at games. The big change is that we've solved boredom . More entertainment content is instantly available than anyone can consume. Humanity has solved "timepass". (That term is used mostly in India [1], but is generally applicable.) A sizable fraction of the populat…

I think at each step the criticism has been right; and each at step the object of criticism has been more seductive than the last. People just extrapolated the worst case too soon.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#933

Post by CobrastanJorji »

socalgal2 wrote: post #353
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

This doesn't match my experience. In fact one thing I noticed living in Japan is how much more willing people are to spend money to meet up. Lots of events costs 3000-7000 yen. Clubs and bar have a cover charge. People will organize parties where they rent a bar and tell their friends it's 4000 yen each (about $27 currently but was closer to $40) in the past. They'll even have house parties and tell everyone to pitch…

Only slightly related, but I've just found out about Japanese bars nomihodai, or "all you can drink for 2 hours" pricing scheme, and I'm flabbergasted by it. It sounds like it'd lead to incredibly dangerous behavior. I wonder if there's some Japanese cultural thing that makes it safer than it sounds.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#934

Post by simianparrot »

CooCooCaCha wrote: post #898
simianparrot wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fasting also leads to breaking down fat via lipolysis during ketogenesis. Burning calories via exercise, including cardio, primarily stops you from _gaining_ weight. So yes of course at the end of the day it is about calorie restriction, but fasting helps force your body into a state where it needs to break down stored calories -- ie. fat tissue.

You’re not wrong about breaking down fat via lipolysis but you’re wrong about the overall picture. Also, not sure what you mean by cardio stopping you from gaining weight. Cardio burns calories and you need to burn calories to lose fat. Anyways, fasting isn’t a body hack like some people think. Just look at this article by Harvard health. At best the benefit is modest: “intermittent fasting has a similar or even mode…

Reducing the window for eating to 8 hours reduces total caloric intake naturally. I never said it was a "hack". Your linked article explains precisely why intermittent fasting is effective under the heading "The state of ketosis"; when it says "has a similar or even modest benefit over traditional calorie-restriction", that supports what I've been talking about, surely.

And cardio burns calories, sure, but have you tracked your caloric burn when exercising? You can't really do active cardio to burn more than you eat -- not without going into a deficit you have to earn back later. Ketosis isn't as fast as breaking down carbohydrates, so you're right, you don't want to do fasted cardio, usually, unless it's very restricted -- or you load up on carbs via a smoothie or something similar high-availability. I do brisk (~110 bpm average) 30 minute walks during the fasting window early in the morning, but that's about the limit.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#935

Post by mathiaspoint »

const_cast wrote: post #913
mathiaspoint wrote: post #896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social welfare was crushing the workforce to begin with. That has never been a good idea.

People without legs and arms on permanent disability weren't gonna be working anyway. And anyone who is on "welfare" and can work a nice job, would do so, because being on welfare sucks major ass. You think there's people sacrificing a fucking salary for 400 dollars worth of SNAP a month that they have to spend on raw, uncooked foods? Come on. Does that even begin to make sense?

If I could find a way to live without working I absolutely would. Nothing "sucks ass" like stressing over some corporation's made up problems you're not properly empowered to solve.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#936

Post by const_cast »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #935
const_cast wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People without legs and arms on permanent disability weren't gonna be working anyway. And anyone who is on "welfare" and can work a nice job, would do so, because being on welfare sucks major ass. You think there's people sacrificing a fucking salary for 400 dollars worth of SNAP a month that they have to spend on raw, uncooked foods? Come on. Does that even begin to make sense?

If I could find a way to live without working I absolutely would. Nothing "sucks ass" like stressing over some corporation's made up problems you're not properly empowered to solve.

> If I could find a way to live without working I absolutely would.

No, no you wouldn't. Yes I am telling you how you feel.

The propagandized image of a welfare queen is just that - a propaganda image. In reality, they live off of very little and have hard lives.

You would really prefer getting a few sheckles a month while you have no arm and legs and a family to feed? No, you wouldn't.

Listen, I hate work as much as the next guy, but me being able to work and earn a good salary is a privilege. I am privileged I am able-bodied. I am privileged a grew up somewhere with lots of education. I am privileged I have been given the opportunities I have.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#937

Post by const_cast »

cdnthrownawy39 wrote: post #925
const_cast wrote: post #907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valid does not mean productive. The unfortunate reality is that people hold these beliefs not because they are true, but because they desperately want them to be true. Self-destruction is perhaps the most common behavior there is. We would all like to believe nothing is our fault and the world just sucks, and such a belief is very comfortable. But we form that belief because it is easy, because it requires no thought…

Kind of disagree that it isn't productive. If someone self destructs out of a social life due to consuming an artificial social life, doesn't that also mean that people that want and need human connection won't have to waste their time filtering through someone that won't provide them with what they want?

Sure, maybe, but it's not productive for themselves - it's self-destruction.

It's the equivalent of cutting off your legs so you can't enter the race so you don't lose the race. Well... mission accomplished, you won't lose the race. But at what cost?

Bonus points if you can believe it's everyone else's fault and none your own. Now you can't lose AND it's not your fault. Great! But you're not even playing.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#938

Post by const_cast »

ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #915
const_cast wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This largely isn't true. If you talk to people who work in nightlife and have for a while, they will tell you that patronage is down significantly over the past couple decades. If you do actually go to a bar or club, you'll even notice nobody is dancing. People don't even dance anymore. But if you don't want to believe me, we do actually have statistics. Young people are drinking less than ever and having less sex th…

> patronage is down significantly over the past couple decades. More bars and restaurants over all but each sees less traffic still means more people going out than before. Take any European city. The old core of specialized shops and people working trades has been replaced with social venues.

What social venues? We don't have clubs anymore. There's no young men's club I can go to like my grandfathers.

Where I'm sitting, there are no social places, just corporate hellscapes. You're correct, mom and pop is gone. But it's replaced by big chains, who want you in and out and give nothing to their community.,

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#939

Post by CooCooCaCha »

simianparrot wrote: post #934
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not wrong about breaking down fat via lipolysis but you’re wrong about the overall picture. Also, not sure what you mean by cardio stopping you from gaining weight. Cardio burns calories and you need to burn calories to lose fat. Anyways, fasting isn’t a body hack like some people think. Just look at this article by Harvard health. At best the benefit is modest: “intermittent fasting has a similar or even mode…

Reducing the window for eating to 8 hours reduces total caloric intake naturally. I never said it was a "hack". Your linked article explains precisely why intermittent fasting is effective under the heading "The state of ketosis"; when it says "has a similar or even modest benefit over traditional calorie-restriction", that supports what I've been talking about, surely. And cardio burns calories, sure, but have you t…

We both know you’re trying to frame it as a hack. There’s no point in emphasizing fasting as much as you did if you didn’t think it was a significant improvement over traditional calorie restriction.

So no, I don’t think a “similar or modest” improvement over traditional calorie restriction supports your point. That phrasing suggests they’re not even willing to commit to it being a modest improvement.

You also seem to have completely misunderstood my point. It’s not about ketosis breaking things down slowly. Like I tried to explain, your body has various substrates it can use for energy (fat, muscle), and if you try to “trick” it by forcing it to burn a disproportionate amount of one, it’ll try to make up for it later. So if you do fasted cardio you might be burning more fat during your cardio session, but your body will try to compensate by burning less fat later. So these tricks don’t work, fasted cardio doesn’t help you lose weight more than non-fasted cardio.

Frankly it sounds like you’re getting your information from misinformed right-wing influencers.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#940

Post by bccdee »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #933
socalgal2 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't match my experience. In fact one thing I noticed living in Japan is how much more willing people are to spend money to meet up. Lots of events costs 3000-7000 yen. Clubs and bar have a cover charge. People will organize parties where they rent a bar and tell their friends it's 4000 yen each (about $27 currently but was closer to $40) in the past. They'll even have house parties and tell everyone to pitch…

Only slightly related, but I've just found out about Japanese bars nomihodai, or "all you can drink for 2 hours" pricing scheme, and I'm flabbergasted by it. It sounds like it'd lead to incredibly dangerous behavior. I wonder if there's some Japanese cultural thing that makes it safer than it sounds.

Japan indeed does have a cultural thing related to that. It's called "binge drinking."

Japan has a really bad drinking culture, or so I've been led to believe.

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