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The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

blogs.windows.com

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Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#931

Post by thewebguyd »

p_ing wrote: post #857
miroljub wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I totally agree with what's being said here. It's a tough pill to swallow when you realize just how entrenched Microsoft is in the business world, and how difficult it would be to get everyone to make the switch to Linux. I mean, think about it - most companies are still stuck on Windows 10 or 11, and they're using all those Microsoft services like Teams, Outlook, and Exchange. It's like they're trapped in this…

They're "trapped" because there is no answer to the Exchange/Outlook combo for business purposes and it's very inexpensive for the value it provides. There are of course alternatives to Teams until you pair Teams with SharePoint/OneDrive/Copilot/Exchange/3rd party market. > A lot of them are just kids who memorized some CompTIA exams and don't really know what they're doing. Well, this is true throughout IT, even tho…

> They're "trapped" because there is no answer to the Exchange/Outlook combo for business purposes and it's very inexpensive for the value it provides. There are of course alternatives to Teams until you pair Teams with SharePoint/OneDrive/Copilot/Exchange/3rd party market.

Yep, it's mostly this. Especially for businesses under 300 users, you get Exchange, EntraID, Defender EDR, InTune(MDM) + the Teams/SharePoint/OneDrive/Copilot all integrated for $22/user/month. For a little extra you get a half way decent PBX for VoIP too.

If you tried to piece all that together yourself with different services, then integrate them to the same level, it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than that.

Microsoft is smart too, as none of that requires Windows either. Even of these companies switched to Linux or macOS en masse, they'd still be using Microsoft.

Plus, there's still no competitor to Excel for business types. We might be able to use Google Sheets to great effectiveness, but the finance department at the behemoths can't. The world runs on Excel, like it or not.

> A lot of them are just kids who memorized some CompTIA exams and don't really know what they're doing.

This is true for all fields not just tech/IT. Competent windows sysadmin work nowadays isn't all that different from macOS endpoints or Linux. Everything can be scripted/automated with PowerShell, or just using the Graph API for 365 stuff. You can effectively manage a windows environment and never touch a GUI if you don't want to.

Microsoft usually isn't the best at anything, but what they excel at is being "good enough" and checking boxes.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#932

Post by ActorNightly »

bigfatkitten wrote: post #525
ActorNightly wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you are working with Linux only, its better to go full linux. WSL2 is really handy when you want to run other software though. For example, I use Solidworks, so I need to run windows. Forscan for Ford vehicles also has to run under Windows. Having WSL2 means that I can just have one laptop and run any software that I want.

I really want to like Windows 11, and I enjoy using WSL, but Microsoft treats me too much like an adversary for me to tolerate it as a daily driver. Only a complete scumbag of a product manager would think pushing Candy Crush ads is a good idea. I’ve got an airgapped Toughbook that I use for the few Windows apps I really need to talk to strange hardware.

You do need to get Win 11 pro to be able to disable all of those features.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#933

Post by ActorNightly »

201984 wrote: post #266
ActorNightly wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL2 can forward USB devices https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/connect-usb I regularly run ADB through WSL2 using this.

That doesn't work for mass storage devices without a custom kernel, and that's just too much hassle to bother with. https://askubuntu.com/a/1533361

There are always going to be niche cases. In general USB storage devices are slow to transfer data anyways, so you are better off in copying the files directly from windows mounted location.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#934

Post by ActorNightly »

therein wrote: post #193
ActorNightly wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you are working with Linux only, its better to go full linux. WSL2 is really handy when you want to run other software though. For example, I use Solidworks, so I need to run windows. Forscan for Ford vehicles also has to run under Windows. Having WSL2 means that I can just have one laptop and run any software that I want.

Did you know that Forscan works flawlessly under Wine if you're not using Bluetooth?

Im sure with enough tinkering I could get Solidworks to run. The thing is I don't want to spend time tinkering, I want to spend time doing. WSL2 gives me the optimal solution for all of that + dev.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#935

Post by belthesar »

zamadatix wrote: post #323
nickserv wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, which games gave you problems?

Unfortunately many of the more popular multiplayer games with anti-cheat tend to consider "made working on Linux" a bug rather than a feature. E.g. Easy Anti-Cheat and Unreal Engine both support Linux natively but Epic still doesn't want to allow it for their own game, Fortnite. https://x.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1490565925648715781

There is more nuance to the anti-cheat systems supporting Linux argument than "it supports it but they won't use it". Turning on Linux support does weaken the security posture of the anti-cheat system, so it's not simply a decision of "it works with Linux, but they won't do it". It is moreso a question of whether the security posture changes for the game with this platform support enabled meet the business requirements. It's not a surprise that games with high MTX revenue do not turn this on, as I imagine this would be the biggest concern with this weaker security posture.

One of the boons of console hardware is also the strict execution environment that is presented on the system. While this of course doesn't prevent all cheating behavior in online games, a large selling point of it as a platform to publishers is not only the market segment available, but the security aspects of the runtime environment.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#936

Post by mmx1 »

pjmlp wrote: post #853
dfox wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original POSIX subsystem was just there so MS could say that it exists (and pass DoD requirements). It got actually somewhat usable with the 2k/XP version, slightly better in Vista (notably: the utilities installer had option to use bash a default shell) and IIRC with 7 MS even again mentioned existence of the thing in marketing (with some cool new name for the thing).

Indeed, and that is why if I wanted to do university work at home instead of fighting for a place at one DG/UX terminal at the campus, I had to find something else. I am aware it got much better later on, but given the way it was introduced, the mess with third party integrations, as Microsoft always outsourced the development effort (MKS, Interix,..), it never got people to care about afterwards. First impressions m…

Realistically anyone who cared would be using something like Cygwin (and the original UNIX server market segment evaporated due to Linux and had zero interest in migrating to NT in that form--some did migrate due to application layer benefits like .NET but not for the same workloads.)

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#937

Post by mrguyorama »

jopicornell wrote: post #470
resource_waste wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Macbooks are winning the laptop war because of superior hardware. No. This is just you repeating marketing. No Nvidia chip = B tier at best. I have a $700 Asus with a 3060 that is better. Go ahead and scale up to a $2000 computer with an Nvidia chip and its so obviously better, there is nothing to debate. No one cares about performance per watt, its like someone ran a 5k race, came in 3rd and said "Well at least I b…

Well, I'll have to hardly disagree. You want a laptop that its battery life is not 1 hour at best. That wasn't a thing in Windows/Linux laptops until M1 started using arm64. 6 Hours of intense work? Good luck with that. Not only that, but being able to run very intensive work (Pro Audio, Development...) seamlessly is an absolute pleasure. Its screen is one of the best screens out there. The trackpad (and some keyboar…

The 6 hours of real work battery that Apple manages with ARM is genuinely impressive, and finally I think shifted the landscape to take ARM seriously as a CPU for consumers.

But it's just not that big a deal. Sure, I COULD spend a day working without power, but it's 2025 and USB-C power delivery is a mature spec. My desk has power. My work desk has power. My living room has power. My bedroom has power. The coffee shop has power. Airplanes have power. My fucking CAR has power.

Where are you working that you need a full 6 hours of hard working power without occasional access to a power outlet and a battery bank won't meet your needs?

I would be satisfied with 2 hours of hard working battery, which is what Ryzen powered Windows laptops deliver. My girlfriend uses her $800 mid range Ryzen laptop to play games and other power hungry things off charger every single day. It's also what work laptops other than Macs have always provided. Sure, my Thinkpad from 2012 needed a giant tumor of a battery to provide that, but it was always an available option, and you could swap it out for a tiny battery if you really wanted to slim it down.

Never an option in apple land. Battery not good enough? Fuck you, too bad.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#939

Post by pjmlp »

alex_smart wrote: post #922
pjmlp wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only on countries where people earn salaries big enough to pay for the Apple hardware tax.

What Apple hardware tax? The macbook air is the best value laptop there is. If the latest version is out of the budget, you can buy older generations used. Even m1 air would be better than any windows laptop at a comparable price point.

Yeah, because only being able to afford used stuff is such a great place to be.

Re: The Windows Subsystem for Linux is now open source

#940

Post by mrguyorama »

zeppelin101 wrote: post #531
bigfatkitten wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to like Windows 11, and I enjoy using WSL, but Microsoft treats me too much like an adversary for me to tolerate it as a daily driver. Only a complete scumbag of a product manager would think pushing Candy Crush ads is a good idea. I’ve got an airgapped Toughbook that I use for the few Windows apps I really need to talk to strange hardware.

I suggest looking into Windows LTSC. It has solved most of the annoyances for me.

You don't need LTSC, you just need Windows Pro versions.

Lots of people bitch and moan about Windows problems that only exist because they buy the cheaper "Home" or whatever license and complain that Microsoft made different product decisions for average users than for people who have bought the explicitly labeled "power user" version.

Remember, the average computer user IS a hostile entity to Microsoft. They will delete System32 and then cry that Windows is so bad! They will turn off all antivirus software and bitch about Windows being insecure. They refuse to update and then get pwned and complain. They blame Microsoft for all the BSODs that were caused by Nvidia's drivers during the Vista era. They will follow a step by step procedure in some random forum from ten years ago that tells them to turn off their entire swap file despite running with lots of RAM and spinning rust and then bitch that Windows is slow.

Don't expect Microsoft to not deal with morons using their software. Buy the Pro versions if you don't want the version meant for morons.

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