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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#931

Post by immibis »

barsonme wrote: post #676
scripturial wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to set up end to end encryption where two different keys unlock your data. Your key, and a government key. I assume google does this. 1. encrypt data with special key 2. encrypt special key with users key, and 3. encrypt special key with government key Anyone with the special key can read the data.the user key or the government key can be used to get special key. This two step process can be done for g…

E2EE means only your intended recipients can access the plaintext. Unless you intend to give the government access to your plaintext, what you described isn’t E2EE.

Sure is - three ends - you, the intended recipient, and the government.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#932

Post by immibis »

ekm2 wrote: post #293
pplante wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is imitating too many dystopian books, movies, etc these days. I think we need to put an end to all creative works before the timeline becomes irrecoverably destroyed.

Banning art?

Burning books, more specifically. Can't be a dystopia if nobody knows what the word "dystopia" means *taps forehead*

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#933

Post by immibis »

troupo wrote: post #422
bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

> What concerns me more is that Apple is the only company audibly making a stand. They are not making a stand. They roll over without a peep. And this is concerning users' privacy which they say is the core of the company. Compare it to fighting every government tooth and nail over every single little thing concerning the "we don't know if it's profitable and we don't keep meeting records" AppStore

"Not making a stand" would be leaving everything as is, and handing your encryption keys over to the government. By loudly disabling ADP and saying this feature is illegal in the UK (they really should have said "illegal" instead of "unavailable" so people would know it was the government), they are at least making half a stand. By leaving it enabled in other regions and for visitors from other regions to the UK, they're making three quarters of a stand.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#934

Post by commandersaki »

edge17 wrote: post #583

Are there non-icloud backup options? There used to be local encrypted backups through itunes, but I can't tell if that feature is still around.

Still exists but now backup is integrated into Finder. You can also do encrypted backup on Windows but I forgot what the app is called (from Apple).

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#935

Post by elAhmo »

ljm wrote: post #358

Fundamentally, I think the issue is more about technical literacy amongst the political establishment who consistently rely on the fallacy that having nothing to hide means you have nothing to fear. Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties. On the authoritarianism: these laws are always worded in such a way that they can be applied or targeted va…

> the government has the mistaken belief that their back door will know the difference between the good guys (presumably them) and the bad guys

This is a very good point, and in the recent months we have been witnessing that people in government, or aiming to become the government, are definitely not the good guys. So, even if what they are asking would be limited to just governments (which it wouldn't), they can't claim they are the good guys anymore.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#937

Post by autoexec »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #793
autoexec wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't there have been be some evidence of that in the past 7 years, either through security research, or through convictions that hinged on information that was gotten from a supposedly E2E-protected backup? I wouldn't count on it. The main way we'd know about it would be a whistleblower at Google, and whistleblowers are extremely rare. Evidence and court records that might expose a secret backdoor or that the g…

People are incredibly bad at keeping secrets. And there are a LOT of people at Google. I don’t buy it.

There were a lot of people working for the NSA besides snowden, but none of them blew the whistle even though some of the programs he exposed had been around for 12 years. There were a whole lot of people working at AT&T but employees weren't lining up to tell us about Room 641A (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A) before Mark Klein. How did everyone else manage to be kept quiet? The details about MKUltra and the Manhattan Project were successfully kept a secret for decades before eventually being declassified.

It'd be a huge mistake to look at the instances where somebody did come forward and spill a secret and assume that it means secrets aren't possible to keep or that there are no secrets being kept right now. It's may not be easy to keep a secret, but governments and corporations are extremely well practiced and have many documented successes.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#938

Post by mianos »

sneak wrote: post #697
kshacker wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the impact of Apple withdrawing from China will be. I know we are talking about UK, but this made me think. Not only their sales will reduce, but hey Chinese manufacturing cuts down. By how much? Will it be impactful? I would think so but wonder if it is quantifiable.

Almost all iPhones are made in China. They cannot pull out without shutting down. They make on average 60,000 ios devices there every hour, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Google pulled out but their phones are made in China. When push comes to shove money always wins still in China.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#939

Post by rhaksw »

anoncow wrote: post #924
rapjr9 wrote: post #919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually an increasing concern, that large multinational companies are so powerful that they don't have to obey governments any more, and can instead blackmail them by withdrawing products. Pornhub has done this in US states. Meta has threatened to do it in various countries. There has always been pushback to regulation from powerful companies, but punishing countries by withdrawing products seems to be used…

I disagree but respect your opinion. Companies have the right to free speech. In the tussle between regulators and companies, companies are disadvantaged. If we can force companies to do the regulators bidding and not allow them to use free speech to act in their best interests, we would have global tyranny. The regulators and companies both acting towards their own goals with freedom allows us to have a world with b…

> In the tussle between regulators and companies, companies are disadvantaged.

When society once again properly separates governmental powers, it will restore balance, and then companies will no longer need to fear "regulators."

In the US, businesses are supposed to be regulated by Congress. That way, if Congress does something foolish, we can vote them out.

But in the last 100 years or so, "administrative law"– that is, binding regulations created by the Executive branch– has become a huge part of law-making [1]. Widespread use of Administrative Law allows Congress to wash its hands of any real decision making.

It isn't supposed to be this way, and I think we will find our way out of it.

Your statement that companies are disadvantaged only rings true because Executive-branch regulators are not held to account. Lower-level staff generally do not rotate from administration to administration, and so they make tons of binding rules without oversight. Fortunately, SCOTUS recently overturned some of this [2].

The fundamental problem is that the separation of powers, which is where America's strength comes from, has been upended. Power has been collected, by parties on all sides, within the Executive branch. It's supposed to be, Congress writes law, Judiciary interprets law, and the Executive enforces law. The Administrative State, however, combines all three powers into one under the Executive. It gives itself executive agencies that can bind citizens, and its own courts (ALJs) to determine their fate. See [1] for a comprehensive review.

[1] https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/I/bo174366...

[2] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-451_7m58.pdf

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