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Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

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Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#931
post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes up at least until LLMs match humans - ie until an LLM can write Windows

I want the LLM to decide not to do anything, or write a new OS. Whenever I prompt: "Do not do anything" It always does .

Do not think of a pink elephant. Were you able to do so?

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#932
post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card companies averaged over 22,000 transactions per second in 2023 without ever having to raise the fee. How many is crypto even capable of processing? Processing without the fee going up? What fraud protection guarantees are offered to the parties of crypto transactions?

> Credit card companies averaged over 22,000 transactions per second in 2023 without ever having to raise the fee. Oh good because the fee is insanely high. > How many is crypto even capable of processing? 1M a second including voting transactions, divide by 4 for non-voting TPS. https://youtu.be/8sl3RcN2Rdk?si=saRTd-fQqG1-L_kb Transaction fee for a simple transfer is a fraction of a penny. I’m not sure if your last…

Most money and most transactions aren't in Solana. Solana processes ~15B /day. Credit card companies, 15T. Solana has only ever reached 2k/s

https://capitaloneshopping.com/research/number-of-credit-car...

Come on now, you know I was referring to consumer fraud. And there is no protection, unless you go off chain.

Transaction fees in the most common coin, Bitcoin, vary wildly. The spike rose to over $100 at one point.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f...

Does everyone just need to get out of Bitcoin and get into Solana before a stampede happens? If Bitcoin crashes, all coins will crash, because there's hundreds of them to choose from. You're playing with tulips.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#933
post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a great example of this read Paul Graham’s essays that aren’t anout his core expertise.

I think that’s unfair unless you give specific examples and clear evidence he’s wrong. I disagree with PG on economics and politics, but much of his writing on that is subjective.

Happy to. Here's PG misrepresenting a wealth tax - https://nindalf.com/posts/wealth-tax/

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run (which in the AI world is probably ~1 year) this is very good for Nvidia, very good for the hyperscalers, and very good for anyone building AI applications. The only thing it's not good for is the idea that OpenAI and/or Anthropic will eventually become profitable companies with market caps that exceed Apple's by orders of magnitude. Oh no, anyway.

Can you guys explain what this would be bad for the OpenAI and Anthropic of the world? Wasn't the story always outlined to be we build better and better models, then we eventually get to AGI, AGI works on building better and better models even faster, and we eventually get to super AGI, which can work on building better and better models even faster... Isn't "super-optimization"(in the widest sense) what we expect to…

If I can use LLMs for free, why would I give money to OpenAI or Anthropic?

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been clear for a while that one of two things is true. 1) AI stuff isn't really worth trillions, in which case Nvidia is overvalued. 2) AI stuff is really worth trillions, in which case there will be no moat, because you can cross any moat for that amount of money, e.g. you could recreate CUDA from scratch for far less than a trillion dollars and in fact Nvidia didn't spend anywhere near that much to create it…

One thing you’re missing is that there’s nothing that says the value must correct. There are at least two very good reasons it might not: Nvidia now has huge amounts of money to invest in developing new technologies, exploring other ideas, and the other is that very little of the stock market is about the actual value of the company itself, but speculation. If people think it will go up, they buy it, reducing supply,…

Eventually people will sell their stock to invest in some business that is actually growing or giving proportional dividends.

Of course, that "eventually" there is holding a way too much load. And it's very likely this won't happen in a time the US government is printing lots of money and distributing it to rich investors. But that second one has to stop eventually too.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#936

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run (which in the AI world is probably ~1 year) this is very good for Nvidia, very good for the hyperscalers, and very good for anyone building AI applications. The only thing it's not good for is the idea that OpenAI and/or Anthropic will eventually become profitable companies with market caps that exceed Apple's by orders of magnitude. Oh no, anyway.

Yes! I have had the exact same mental model. The biggest losers in this news are the groups building frontier models. They are the ones with huge valuations but if the optimizations becomes even close to true, its a massive threat to their business model. My feet are on the ground but I do still believe that the world does not comprehend how much compute it can use...as compute gets cheaper we will use more of it. Ig…

My big current conspiracy theory is that this negative sentiment toward Nvidia from Deepseek's release is spread by people who actually want to buy more stock at a cheaper price. Like, if you know anything about the topic, it's wild to assume that this will drive demand for GPUs anywhere but up. If Nvidia came out with a Jetson like product that can run the full 670B R1, they could make infinite money. And in the datacenter section, companies will stumble over each other to get the necessary hardware (which corresponds to a dozen H100s or so right now). Especially once HF comes out with their uncensored reproduction. There's so much opportunity to turn more compute into more money because of this, almost every company could theoretically benefit.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#939
post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the analysis of (2) is too simplistic because it ignores network effects. A community of developers and users around a specific toolset (e.g. CUDA) is hard to just "buy". Imagine trying to build a better programming language than python -- you could do it for a trillion dollars, but good luck getting the world to use it. For a real example, see Meta and Threads, or any other Twitter competitor.

Why can’t you just build something that’s CUDA-compatible? You won’t have to move anyone over then. Or is the actual CUDA api patented? And will Chinese companies care about that?

AFAIK, CUDA is protected. There are patents, and the terms of use of the compiler forbids using it on other devices.

Of course, most countries will stump over the terms of use thing (or worse, use it as evidence to go after Nvidia), and will probably ignore the patents because they are anticompetitive. It's not only China that will ignore them.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#940
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even Microsoft Copilot 365 had a successful launch. The same happened with Apple Intelligence. People talk like the end user demand part of the equation is really solved when invoking an Econ 101 magical interpretation of the Law of Supply and Demand or Jevons Padadox.

Apple Intelligence has barely released what they announced is coming Deep integration into iOS won't be tacked on in a rush to market addition to OS.

I sure hope not, because what they've released so far is worse than useless. The "notifications summaries" in particular are hilariously bad. It's the same problem with Google's "AI Overview"--wrong or misleading enough that you simply can't trust any of it.

But to be clear, none of these things are commercial products. They're gimmicks. Google is an ads company, they make their money selling ads. Apple is a computer company, they make their money selling computers. These "AI products" are a circus sideshow.

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