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The Origins of Wokeness

paulgraham.com

931–940 of 1001 posts

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#931
post #378

Why are the tech elite and right so obsessed with this term? It’s such a bizarre phenomenon - I can’t wrap my head around it.

Tech elite currently enjoy disproportionately large benefits from rampantly un-balanced systems that allow them to exploit people for their work and therefore they stand to lose quite a bit from any rebalancing of said systems.

Basically, workers get nothing and CEOs get everything.

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#932
post #99

I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people. As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. and then on the other side it feels like…

Paul makes clear what definition he is using, so let’s discuss that instead of an unbearably boring discussion about which definition of “woke” is the real one.

The second definition is a gentrification of the first definition. They are intrinsically linked and cannot be separated.

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#933
post #912
post #99

I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people. As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. and then on the other side it feels like…

The irony of all of this is that if you boil down the concept of 'wokeness' to simply looking past the status quo, then a lot of the things that are currently labelled 'woke' are in fact anything but. It transcends the political spectrum and simply becomes a cudgel for shit you don't like but can't explain why . Gay marriage? It's legal, therefore status quo. Making gay marriage illegal again? Not status quo, therefo…

>that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead.

If you're going to be reductive with someone's argument, at least use the entire argument.

If we do, IDK how you can say woke is just oppositional positions when that wasn't the idea OP proposed.

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#934

This is one of Paul Graham's best essays. The historical timeline is accurate, the phrasing is much more careful than the comments here claim. If you are 20 and in university, it will be hard to understand the historic perspective. You cannot just rip out single sentences and attack them without context. If you disagree with everything, at least read the paragraph about Mao's cultural revolution, where he riled up yo…

[flagged]

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#935
post #99

I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people. As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. and then on the other side it feels like…

> i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. Ok, I'll bite. What is having empathy for the homeless? Is allowing unconstrained immigration to increase competition for entry-level positions empathy? What about restrictions on construction that make housing completely unaffordable? Is that empathy? Is leaving the drug-addicted portion of the homeless out on the str…

> Ok, I'll bite. What is having empathy for the homeless?

Let's start by changing how we think about housing and shelter from an investment to basic rights.

Or maybe stop criminalizing being poor.

> Is allowing unconstrained immigration to increase competition for entry-level positions empathy?

That's not a thing.

>What about restrictions on construction that make housing completely unaffordable?

Which ones? Some like quality and safety standards add cost short term but save long term.

However SFH rules hurt density, and cause grater strain on infrastructure and resources, while also driving up costs.

> Is leaving the drug-addicted portion of the homeless out on the street to battle their addictions on their own empathy[1]?

Medical safe injection sites could be part of the solution. But this requires thinking beyond "drugs are bad mkay"

Investing in diversion and rehab is another good use of resources.

> Saying nice words (not having disdain) is not the same thing as helping someone.

But if you can't even say nice words, your brain is so broken that you look at the unhoused with fear or contempt, how will you ever support investment in those same people?

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#937
> I'm fairly confident that it would be possible to create new social media apps that were less driven by outrage,

How? App development needs money, which is today acquired through ads, which need eyeballs, and therefore engagement, which is easiest to get by outrage.

> and an app of this type would have a good chance of stealing users from existing ones, because the smartest people would tend to migrate to it.

Why would most normal people follow the smart people?

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#938
I’m sure elites love that we’re spending more time arguing about tokenism in mediocre corporate franchise media and other nonsense than we are talking about economic and material concerns

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#939
post #99

I think the word “woke” means very different things to some people. As an example I think people from the American political left to somewhere(?) in the middle see it as what it has been introduced as, that being looking past the status quo and instead looking at your own values, i.e. the morality of homelessness and not having a disdain for them but empathy for them instead. and then on the other side it feels like…

I see it as a clash between people who are instinctually inclined towards philosophical nominalism (woke) and people who are instinctually inclined towards realism (not-woke). Dr. Nathan A. Jacobs lays out the details and the arguments for this way of defining our current culture war here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVmPIMg4St4

Re: The Origins of Wokeness

#940
What an embarrassment. To think I once respected you. On the near eve of Trump retaking power and this poorly reasoned garbage is what you choose to post. The most generous explanation I can muster is that this is a cynical ploy to ingratiate yourself with the man who just bought the government.

Congrats on pontificating on the most serious issue of our time: why you can’t call black people negros or colored people. I’m done with HN.

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