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US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

reuters.com

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Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#931
post #737

"Driver is mostly disengaged, but then must intervene in a sudden fail state" is also one of the most dangerous types of automation due to how long it takes the driver to reach full control as well.

Yeah, I don't drive but I would think it would be worse than actually paying attention all the time

It's more like being a driving instructor, which has a higher effort and skill bar than just driving.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like the justice system living up to its ideals. If the 12 jurors know they would have done the same in your situation, as would their family and friends, then they can't in good conscience convict you for negligence.

It sounds like the kind of narcissism that perverts justice. People understand things they could see themselves doing, don't understand things that they can't see themselves doing, and disregard the law entirely. It makes non-doctors and non-engineers incapable of judging doctors and engineers, rich people incapable of judging poor people, and poor people incapable of judging rich people. It's just a variation of let…

I can agree with you in many cases. But for convicting someone due to negligence, they have to, by definition, have conducted themselves in a way that competent people engaged in that activity wouldn't usually. If all drivers drive a certain way, even if it's dangerous, then you're not negligent by the standards of the law for driving that same way.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. If you write software that people rely on with their lives, and it fails, you should be held liable for that criminally.

Remember that this is neural networks doing the driving, more than old expert systems: What makes a crash happen is a network that fails to read an image correctly, or a network that fails to capture what is going on when melding input from different sensors. So the blame won't be on a guy who got an if statement backwards, but signing off on stopping training, failing to have certain kinds of pictures in the set, or…

This is the difference between a Professional Engineer (ie. the protected term) and everyone else who calls themselves engineers. They can put their signature on a system that would then hold them criminally liable if it fails.

Bridges, elevators, buildings, ski lifts etc. all require a professional engineer to sign off on them before they can be built. Maybe self driving cars need the same treatment.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so . What does the Tesla do (or not do) in this case that's bad?

> That car is signaling an intention to merge into your lane once it is safe for them to do so. Only under the assumption that the driver was trained in the US, to follow US traffic law, and is following that training. For example, in the EU, you switch on the indicators when you start the merge; the indicator shows that you ARE moving.

[deleted]

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#935
post #921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just gave it another try after my last failed attempt. ( https://tomverbeure.github.io/2024/05/20/Tesla-FSD-First-and... ) I still find it shockingly bad, especially in the way it reacts, or doesn’t, to the way things change around the car (think a car on the left in front of you who switches on indicators to merge in front of you) or the way it makes the most random lane changing decisions and changes it’s mind in…

[flagged]

There's degrees to being a shitty human being.

Using your platform and millions of followers to publicly shit some random person who pissed you off is a degree of it.

Being a colossal hypocrite with your 'free speech' platform, or lying to your customers is something else.

Full mask-off throwing millions of dollars towards electing a convicted conman who is unabashedly corrupt, vindictive, nepotistic, already has a failed coup under his belt, and is running on a platform of punishing anyone who isn't a sycophant is... Also something else.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#936

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a problem that gets worse as the software gets better. Having to intervene once every 5 minutes is a lot easier than having to intervene once every 5 weeks. If lack of intervention causes an accident, I'd bet on the 5 minute car avoiding an accident longer than the 5 week car for any span of time longer than 10 weeks.

I feel like the full self driving cars should have a "budget". Every time you drive, say, 1000 km in FSD, you then need to drive 100 km in "normal" mode to keep sharp. Or whatever the ratio / exact numbers TBD. You can reset the counter upfront by driving smaller mileage more regularly.

That's not solving the right problem. That keeps you sharp driving, but does not keep you sharp supervising. If the car did drive you 1000 km flawlessly, but can still kill you with a random erratic bug on the 1001th km (or on the 1234th). That is where people will zone out. Keeping people driving will keep them able to drive, but won't make them less zoned out when they are not driving.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#937
post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is he trying to buy a president in the first place? Because he can make more money under one than the other.

Obviously yeah, but I do think his odd fervor in this allows us to speculate that there are some threats to his businesses that are not well understood publicly, and that would be solved by becoming a sort of American oligarch.

It's really not much of a stretch.

In addition to the risks to Tesla raised upthread, SpaceX needs an ambitious space program, and Mars program specifically along the lines of Musk's ideas.

Capturing the US government is a great way to get there.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#939
post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More Americans should go drive on the Autobahn. Everyone thinks the magic is “omg no speed limits!” which is neat but the really amazing thing is that NO ONE sits in the left hand lane and EVERYONE will let you merge immediately upon signaling. It’s like a children’s book explanation of the nice things you can have (no speed limits) if everyone could just stop being such obscenely selfish people (like sitting in the…

Tesla FSD on German Autobahn = most dangerous thing ever. The car has never seen this rule and it's not ready for a 300km/h car behind you.

To be fair, Tesla FSD on German Autobahn = impossible because it's not released yet, precisely because it's not trained for German roads.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are required to pay attention all the time. That's what the "supervised" in "FSD (supervised)" means.

FSD stands for Fully Supervised Driving, right?

Same energy as

Unlimited Data!! (up to 100GB)

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