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Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

reuters.com

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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#931

Post by Ajedi32 »

rtsil wrote: post #438
nradov wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Federal government uses the following definition: the term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:22%20section:...

And yet the same Federal government called the attack against USS Cole "terrorism" and its perpetrators "terrorists", and implemented a range of "anti-terrorism" measures in the Navy after that. And it was a military target, and all the victims were military. So really, terrorism is what people say is terrorism.

I think the more relevant part in that particular case is "subnational groups". The USS Cole attack was obviously not an act of war by Yemen against the US, so it needed to be investigated as a terrorist attack instead.

> The extensive FBI investigation ultimately determined that members of the al Qaeda terrorist network planned and carried out the bombing.

[...]

> By the end of 2000, Yemeni authorities had arrested several suspects, including Jamal Muhammad Ahmad Al-Badawi and Fahad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Quso

(Source: https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/uss-cole-bombing)

You don't generally call in the FBI to "investigate" a military attack, or "arrest suspects".

If the nation of Yemen had immediately claimed responsibly for the exact same attack and declared war, it wouldn't have been considered terrorism, and rightfully so.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#932

Post by jhallenworld »

snakeyjake wrote: post #914
jhallenworld wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBTQ+ and even women's rights are a recent phenomenon in the west, and still unfolding (and could revert). If you want the less enlightened society to embrace these rights, how do you propose to do it? Take their land? Killing their kids? Open air prison? I don't think these strategies are going to do it..

Unless Patrick Stewart is involved I’m straighter than a laser beam. I’m talking about apostasy and being outspoken on civil rights. But good point about how they drag homosexuals from behind scooters until they are dead. As far as fixing them? I really don’t give a shit. They are as fixable as the North Korean ruling elite. Anyone who thinks they can be smiled and hugged into the modern age is a fool.

>I’m talking about apostasy

Yeah, I was guessing...

>As far as fixing them? I really don’t give a shit.

What would you suggest then? Kill them all?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#933

Post by nebula8804 »

DevX101 wrote: post #197
mrtksn wrote: post #90

Ha, maybe this will be the turning point for international corporations becoming national-only? Or maybe make the big brands like Apple/Samsung the only trusted device manufacturers and completely wipe out the small ones? No iPhones exploded so far but I wouldn't be surprised if the paranoia takes over everywhere and local supply chains and local producers become a thing. "Foreign social media platforms" was already…

If they have the capacity to intercept the supply chain, they almost certainly have been implanting listening devices in electronics of all sorts. If you're not in Hezbollah or Hamas you probably don't need to worry about getting blown up by your phone, but if you've got a large platform and been very critical of Israel, it wouldn't be a huge stretch to imagine that you might get personally targeted by communication…

Israel maintains public lists of people criticizing Israel (if you publicly apologize to them and renounce your views you can be removed) so I wouldn't be surprised that they are also maintaining a large network of interception. Maybe even using multiple avenues to collect data like buying from data brokers.

[1]:https://canarymission.org/

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#934

Post by aguaviva »

AlfeG wrote: post #872
datameta wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're bringing other conflicts into this... How come Ukraine is able to put in every effort to avoid civilian death when their opponent deliberately uses cruise and ballistic missiles on residential areas?

Literally every week there is a several civilians dead in Belgorod area from Ukraine missiles deliberately fired on residential area.

I'd like to see sources also, please.

I won't defend Ukraine's actions in this case -- but the sum total of reports I've seen suggest a far lower total. You will also definitely need to provide support for the assertion of "missiles deliberately fired on a residential area" (as opposed to being intercepted and then landing in those places).

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#935

Post by raxxorraxor »

freedude wrote: post #929
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I guess like in Gaza, civilians are de facto complicit. Plus they are Arabs and not Jewish so can we really apply human rights to them? Are they even actually humans? I guess it’s not genocide when it’s done to animals. /s

1. We are guilty by association. 2. When a guy makes a choice to join up with a terrorist organization he will bring that guilt home with him. It will affect those around him. We may be free to choose but we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. Even when they affect the innocent we associate with. If this is a new thought to you read a few more books. Here are some suggestions... The Holy Bible Hil…

We are not guilty by association. Becoming a militant does make you are valid target though and terror organizations are mostly militant.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#936

Post by raxxorraxor »

anigbrowl wrote: post #629
edanm wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reports say that these devices were specifically part of shipments that went specifically to Hezbollah. Which makes sense - I don't think the US Army is using the same walkies that a random hospital in the US uses, for example.

It's far too early for anyone to know that with certainty. And (for what feels like the nth time), Hezbollah is not just a bunch of guys with weapons, it's the civil administration in large parts of the country. Also if the situation were reversed and Hezbollah carried out an attack like this on the IDF, I really doubt the Israelis would just suck it up and say 'oh well occupational hazard of military life, guess we'…

Hezbollah was formed to attack Israel. It did form a political party at some point but all of them are militants.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#937

Post by numpad0 »

dang wrote: post #888
numpad0 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Religious and/or nationalistic flamewar will get you banned here. No more of this (or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41583887 ) please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

okay, I should have been more thoughtful with respect to that. Will stay away from these topics in the future.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#938

Post by gryzzly »

Hikikomori wrote: post #530
gryzzly wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is Hamas who is to blame for these deaths. Launching rockets from densely populated areas.

How does bombing civilians stop rockets already launched? Most likely the person launching is already out of the area.

The whole thing of Hamas is embedding itself and its infrastructure in the civilian areas. If civilians are requested to evacuate, informed about the fact their houses are used by Hamas and the rocket launchers, rocket factories, tunnels and electric infrastructure to support all of that is going to be targeted, then perhaps it is not exactly fair to use words “bombing civilians” as a matter or fact?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#939

Post by jhanschoo »

PepperdineG wrote: post #650
rtsil wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that. When Al Quaeda attacked the USS Cole, a purely military vessel without a single civilian casualty, the US administration and the entire US military called it an act of terrorrism.

Al Qaeda isn't a nation-state so by definition it falls into terrorism. It's like if Greenpeace sunk a military vessel because the sonar was killing sea life that would be terrorism. It would have some serious side effects if it was OK for private non-governmental actors being able to target militaries and be seen as legitimate in their actions.

Of course, if we consider all actions by non-state combatants against state military actors to be terrorism, the US and Western Europe has frequently been a big sponsor of terrorism. A recent cause that many are sympathetic to of this nature that immediately comes to my mind are the Kurds in Syria during the Syrian civil war.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#940

Post by meepmorp »

JohnMakin wrote: post #827
meepmorp wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rules of war prohibit planting explosive in objects which are likely to be picked up by civilians. Yes, and? They didn't just leave a bunch of attractive nuisance bombs all over Lebanon; they specifically targeted devices provided by Hezbollah to coordinate activities which were meant to be carried around on their persons. That seems like the opposite of leaving them where civilians might pick them up.

Man if only we didn’t live in a global society where carrying electronic communication devices in non-combatant (aka civilian) settings was the norm, you’d maybe have a point here. Multiple children have been reported as killed. Do you think that may fall under the category of “indiscriminate?”

The fact of unintended victims doesn't make an attack indiscriminate - it's a failure to distinguish military from civilian targets and/or using attacks that are as likely as not to kill civilians. You need to minimize civilian casualties, not prevent them entirely.

The targets here were, according to the reports seen so far, Hezbollah members - an organization currently at war with Israel. They were sent small charges in a format that could be reasonably expected to remain on or by the target, minimizing the likelihood of collateral damage.

This is not, btw, the same as saying "totally ok from a moral standpoint," or that the civilian deaths and injuries aren't bad, or that it wasn't irresponsible or evil or whatever you might think about it. I don't even necessarily think that the attack was a good move for Israel independent of the ethics. I just disagree that indiscriminate is an appropriate description - if anything, the discriminating and sophisticated way the bombs were delivered is part of what makes the thing disconcerting.

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